By Bob Thiel
Many realized that I was the most prolific supporter of the Living Church of God (LCG) from its
official beginning in 1998 until sometime in 2012. While reasons why I left LCG
have been explained in the past (see also Why Bob Thiel Left the Living
Church of God; en el idioma español:¿Por qué Bob Thiel dejó la Iglesia del Dios Viviente?), I have not
directly addressed several of the accusations leveled against me by its
Presiding Evangelist Dr. Roderick C. Meredith.
Partially because of this, various ones have made a variety of improper
assumptions and/or incomplete conclusions about my departure, so the intent of
this article is to go into some details related to a December 28, 2012 letter
from Dr. Meredith.
Before getting to that letter, some background may be helpful. I
was baptized by a Worldwide Church of God minister in 1977 and stayed with that
church until 1995. I first met Dr. Meredith at the Feast of Tabernacles
in Fiji in 1989. We met a few times after this, but he really began to
remember me at the Feast of Tabernacles in Branson, Missouri in 1998, just
prior to the Global Church of God (GCG) split that he suspected was coming at
that time (he gave me his home telephone number then and we discussed issues
that the GCG editorial department had about him and something they said when
they published an article that I wrote for the old Global Church News).
When the GCG split happened, we discussed it over the telephone and Dr.
Meredith encouraged my internet support of what he was then doing via my
website cogwriter.com—and I provided it. For a very
short time, cogwriter.com was from a functional perspective LCG's only website
(though LCG never owned it or paid for any of it). After the crisis
subsided, the late evangelist Carl McNair had me promise to keep the site going—and it still is.
Throughout the years, I had been an unpaid adviser to Dr. Meredith on
various matters. Sometime in late 1999 (it could have been another year),
Dr. Meredith made me promise, over my objections, that I had to tell him when I
thought he was 'pulling punches' doctrinally. I tried to diligently carry
that out, and that, for the first most obvious example, led to a major revision
of LCG's Official Statement of Fundamental Beliefs in November
2002 (the main point of which was to include more of the 18 restored truths to it).
Advisor Appointment Followed By
Disturbing Matters
In the late Summer of 2005, Dr. Meredith formally asked if I would be a
volunteer advisor to the 'doctrinal committee' (basically meaning an advisor on
these matters to the Charlotte-based evangelists) in the areas of doctrine and
prophecy. I agreed.
However, there were many disturbing issues that crept up over time.
Perhaps the five biggest were:
1) The realization that LCG would not publish corrections in its Tomorrow's
World magazine or other publications when it made doctrinal errors.
2) That LCG was too willing to send out literature with known errors that its
leadership knew about.
3) That the leadership did not seem to keep all of its promises.
4) That the falling away matter change was not condemned strongly enough.
5) The leadership did not seem to practice various portions of the Bible, such
as Matthew 18:15-17, the way that it seemed that they should.
Why did I keep supporting LCG then?
The two main reasons were that I did not see any other COG group as
close to the Philadelphia standard as LCG and the
fact that the leadership would often basically apologize for not keeping its
promises and then would tell me that it would keep them and that it would
correct various booklets and other literature. And this happened multiple
times in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 (and they paid to fly me out to
Charlotte a couple of times to go over these matters, so I presumed that they
were serious). I also met with Dr. D. Winnail in 2011 and 2012 where he basically did so himself. On December 16, 2011, Dr.
Meredith personally committed to making at least the most significant changes I
advised related to LCG's Official Statement of Fundamental Beliefs by
the end of January 2012; to see what those were click on the next link for two
emails followed by the December 2011 Proposed changes to LCG's Official
Statement of Fundamental Beliefs—my proposed changes
to the Statement are shown in red and
explanations are shown in the footnotes that were also submitted. As of
November 15, 2013, the changes were not made and LCG's Statement with the
errors is still being made available according to an online check.
Furthermore, I had met with Richard Ames on the Last Great Day in 2012
(October 8, 2012) and asked if it would be okay to bring up errors related to
one LCG booklet, my thoughts on the Falling Away matter, as well as the final phase of the work. He concurred, so I
committed to doing so.
Therefore in October 2012, I began again to work with William Bowmer (Executive Editor for LCG). He agreed that
certain errors and questionable assertions needed to be dealt with, but also
stated in an email on October 18, 2012 that LCG would continue to distribute
over 20,000 error-filled booklets (see October 2012 Emails Related to GCA Booklet). This was
disturbing and did not appear to be a proper Christian standard. This was the
second or third time I learned something like this, and had been told before
that LCG would stop this, but obviously that promise was also not kept.
As of November 15, 2013, that booklet is still being made available with those
same errors according to an online check.
On October 23, 2012, I also sent a version of my falling away paper to
Richard Ames, who did not respond to it. And finally, in December 2012, I
sent my paper on the final phase of the work to Richard Ames and thus fulfilled
my last promised commitment to him. (The main content of both papers has
since been posted and updated, see: The Falling Away: The Bible and WCG Teachings and The Final Phase of the Work.)
During this time, an LCG minister said to send the chronology related to
prophet matters to some on the Council of Elders who did not have it, so I did
(a version of which is shown as part of the 12/28/12 p.m. update at http://www.cogwriter.com/11gnews.htm).
Various ones, several times during December 2012, said that Dr. Meredith
would talk to me about my concerns related to the falling away matter, booklet
issues, the final phase of the work, and other doctrinal matters I brought up.
He not only refused to speak with me, instead he sent a letter on
12/28/12 that was unrelated to what I had been led to believe we would discuss.
Before getting to that letter, let me state that at no time
did Dr. Meredith ever tell me prior to his letter that he felt I had a problem,
'feelings of greatness,' or any such subjects. Nor was that ever any
topic that my local LCG pastor (Dr. Jeff Fall) or my previous LCG minister ever
brought up to me.
The reason that this is important to bring out first is that Matthew 18
says that if one feels that a brother has somehow sinned against him, one
should privately go to one’s brother about it (vs. 15).
It then states that if he will not listen, to bring another (vs.
16). And if after all that he refuses to listen, that the problem should
be told to the church (vs. 17).
But Dr. Meredith did none of that. Some may be surprised how one
could be an evangelist for so many decades and not follow this. I will
simply flat out state that he did not follow what Jesus said to do in Matthew
18:15-17, and that he seemed to be fine with that.
Why did this improper action happen? There seems to have been many
factors. Although I had been LCG’s most prolific supporter from its
inception until I heard Dr. D. Winnail’s falling away
sermon in July 2012, the fact that I raised biblical and COG objections to a
doctrinal change did not set well with various ones in the LCG
leadership.
Sadly, neither Richard Ames nor Dr. Meredith discussed what my papers
brought up on this matter with me in 2012, so this was distressing (I did, back
in 2008 and/or 2009 discuss this matter with Dr. Meredith then, and at that time
he concurred with my position on the falling away matter—not the change that he
later accepted from Dr. Winnail). But the fact that
he did not seem to take steps to properly dissuade Dr. Winnail in 2009 or later was disturbing.
The December 28, 2012 Letter Was
Received
Instead of discussing matters such as those with me (the last time I
actually spoke to Dr. Meredith was March 23, 2012), I (and many others)
received an email letter from him that he addressed to me.
Although I read Dr. Meredith’s 12/28/12 letter in December of 2012, it
seems that the next time I read it in its entirety again was November of
2013. Because of inquiries I have received from some interested in the
truth, it seemed that this would be a good time to go through the entire letter.
(It may be worth noting that I did follow the steps of Matthew 18:15-17 with
Dr. Meredith on at least one prior occasion concerning issues I had with his
sinning against me, and consider this article also to be related to
responsibilities under Matthew 18:17. Specifically, on the advice of 2
ministers who are or were on the LCG Council of Elder, I mailed Dr. Meredith a
letter in June 2011 via US mail. As he did not follow through, I had a three
plus hour meeting with Dr. Winnail about those
subjects during the Feast of Tabernacles in 2011. Then had two meetings with
Dr. Meredith, Richard Ames, and Dr. Winnail on
December 15 & 16, 2011, which also included those subjects. Dr. Meredith
promised to keep a variety of promises, then failed to do so, and I spent much
of 2012 trying to resolve these with Dr. Meredith and asked various ministers
to assist. After getting the 12/28/12 letter, I then "told it to the
Church" via posts at the GCG News page at www.cogwriter.com. I also
followed Matthew 18 regarding the 'falling away' matter.)
So, this article includes Dr. Meredith's letter in its entirety from Dr.
Meredith, in multiple parts, followed by comments from me.
Dr. Meredith's letter begins with:
December 28, 2012
Dear Dr. Thiel,
I have carefully read and marked your paper to
Dexter Wakefield on the “Chronology Related to Bob Thiel and Evangelistic and
Related Matters.” Since this matter relates to your relationship with the
Church as a whole and your entire future, I have decided to answer this matter
myself.
That chronology to Dexter Wakefield and the two non-Charlotte-based LCG
evangelists was sent because an LCG minister felt they should know these
details. I had sent versions of it to the Charlotte-based evangelists,
including Dr. Meredith in the Summer of 2012. I never asked for any
answer (other than pleading with them to keep their promises to correct and
update literature), only reminded them of some information that they already
knew and added some information that they did not know.
No response to what I sent to Dexter Wakefield was expected (though
Dexter Wakefield emailed he got it, said he would discuss it with Dr. Meredith,
etc.), and it was shocking when the denials came out on 12/28/12 in this letter
from Dr. Meredith. I was expecting to discuss matters like the falling
away and final phase of the work—not getting a letter with the denials of facts
that I knew were true.
The Letter Continues
Dr. Meredith continued with:
I have prayed that for your own good and
your future reward in God’s Kingdom, you will sincerely ask God at this time to
give you an open mind and willing heart to heed Almighty God’s
instruction in Proverbs 15:31-33: “The ear that hears the rebukes of life will
abide among the wise. He who disdains instruction despises his own soul, but he
who heeds rebuke gets understanding. The fear of the Lord is the instruction of
wisdom, and before honor is humility.”
Dr. Meredith was in my regular prayers back then and remains in them
now. Furthermore, pretty much daily I pray that I will “trust in the Lord with
all my heart and lean not to my own understanding, etc.” (Proverbs
3:5-6). But the letter is biased toward accusations and not instruction.
Dr. Meredith continued with:
Bob, I have personally liked you, wanted to
encourage you and have tried to work with you for years. However, I have seen
that you have had great difficulty in learning the lessons
of deep humility that God wants all of us to learn. With very
few exceptions, nearly everyone who knows you has clearly seen that—although
you have a quick mind and great energy—you have nearly always thought very
highly of yourself and of your own opinions.
Sadly, it seems clear that Dr. Meredith wishes to blame me for many of
the same things that Herbert Armstrong said he was guilty of. While there is
little point rehashing those here, let me simply state that I do know what I personally
had been thinking and I am severely disappointed that Dr. Meredith did what he
did on 12/28/12.
In 2005, it was Dr. Meredith who appointed me to be an advisor to LCG on
matters of doctrine and prophecy. He never told me before that 12/28/12
letter he felt I had any issues learning humility.
If Dr. Meredith felt that I had a problem with deep humility, perhaps he
should have brought that up to me over the years? But the fact is that he never
did!
How can he assert how I “nearly always thought” without either knowing
that or ever saying so in the past? Since he does not claim any special powers
to read my mind, hopefully those interested in the truth will realize that he
was improperly insisting on conclusions and accusations based on what he wanted
to believe, as oppose to that which is true.
Dr. Meredith now seems to be so accustomed to people who will compromise
for the sake of his organizational unity, that he seems to have difficulty
accepting that some people still, firmly believe, that the word of God should
not be clearly compromised — that they will not simply “go along to get along” —as many leaders in
LCG have been doing. It was not acceptable for me to be part of a church
that declared it would essentially define itself by its “falling away”
doctrinal change (details are in the article The Falling Away: The Bible and WCG Teachings).
Dr. Meredith continued with:
You have offended or at least “bugged” dozens of
Church members with this very self-important, pushy and “know-it-all” attitude
and approach. So if I, as a minister of Christ for over 60 years and one old
enough to be your father—can help you, I would certainly like to do this. For I
love you as a fellow human being and one I have known and shared a number of
hours with in talking over matters related to the Bible and our entire purpose
here on this earth.
Again, it was Dr. Meredith who appointed me to be an advisor to LCG on
matters of doctrine and prophecy and also made me promise against my
objections that to tell him when I thought he was pulling
punches.
The fact that I took that promise seriously, and some were possibly
offended because my word was kept is disappointing—but I tried hard not be
intentionally offensive—and should not be accused for being “pushy” for keeping
my word. Since I have been an advisor to Dr. Meredith for many years, one
would have thought he would have discussed these concerns he decided to wait
until 12/28/12 to condemn me for them.
Furthermore, those people who were telling Dr. Meredith that I have
somehow bothered them, why did they not contact me? The Bible teaches to
go to one’s brother if one feels he sinned against them (Matthew 18:15-17) or
has some type of spiritual fault (Galatians 6:1-4) to attempt to help
him. It does not say to slander him before a high level leader of a church
when he is not around to defend himself—but that is what happened. And
apparently many seem to think that is appropriate.
Instead trying to work with me, Dr. Meredith repeated these accusations
without meeting and without telling me what specifically I may have been doing
wrong.
Consider also the following from the Bible:
13 For I hear the slander of many; Fear is on every
side; While they take counsel together against me, They scheme to take away my
life. 14 But as for me, I trust in You, O Lord; I say, "You are my
God." (Psalms 31:13-14)
Now as far as me supposedly being “very self-important” and “pushy” as
Dr. Meredith is claiming, an incident in November and one in December 2012
should be brought up here as an example of how matters really tended to happen.
In November 2012, it was clear that LCG had a problem with another
aspect of its literature. Although two Charlotte-based ministers (Gary
Ehman and Wyatt Ciesielka) agreed with my
conclusions, neither of them would bring this up to the evangelists there— and they both told me to do it, so I did so. I would not
characterize my response as a pushy approach, but the readers of this can draw
their own conclusions. Here is what I sent on 11/29/12:
Dear Charlotte Evangelists:
Instead of now sending a paper on other aspects of
the final phase of the work, after reviewing LCG’s Personal Correspondence
department letter L187 on the days of Daniel 12, it seemed
that perhaps aspects related to the 1260, 1290, and 1335 days of Daniel 12
should be addressed first. And mainly, in this paper, I will focus on how they
tie in with Daniel 11:28-35.
I copied Wyatt Ciesielka and Gary Ehman as I sent them a prior draft of this a bit earlier this month
and have discussed this. So, I thought they both would like to see my revised
recommendations.
The main item from L187 that I
hope to deal with is the following section:
We may not know the exact time when the 1,335 days begin, since no one knows the day of Christ’s coming (Matthew 24:36; Acts 1:7). Apparently, however, at the beginning of the 1,335 days, the organized efforts of God’s Work to proclaim the Gospel to the world will end (Amos 8:11-12).
Since no one knows the day of Christ’s coming (Matthew 24:36; Acts 1:7), we may not know in advance the exact time when the 1,335 days begin. Apparently, however, at the beginning of the 1,335 days (Daniel 11:28-30), a type of persecution will begin, and sometime prior to the start of the 1290 days, efforts of God’s Work to proclaim the Gospel will fulfill that portion of Matthew 24:14, and shortly thereafter there will be a famine of the word (Amos 8:11-12).
But summary of the rationale is as follows:
·
The 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 begins with the placing of the abomination
and stopping of sacrifices in Daniel 11:31.
·
The 1260 days begins with the start of the Great Tribulation which is
also when “the power of the holy people is completely shattered” per Daniel
12:7 (NKJV throughout unless otherwise noted). In the sequence in Daniel 11,
this happens after Daniel 11:31 and by the time of Daniel
11:39.
·
Thus, the start of the 1335 days of Daniel 12:12 must happen PRIOR to
Daniel 11:31.
·
In Daniel chapter 11, the only two mentions related to “holy” prior to
Daniel 11:31 are Daniel 11:28 and Daniel 11:30 and seem related to what is
finalized in Daniel 12:7.
·
The 1335 days must begin with Daniel 11:28, 29, or 30.
·
Because of the sequence of Matthew 24 and Daniel 11, the proclamation
portion of Matthew 24:14 seems to be fulfilled prior to Daniel 11:31 (which
Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:15).
·
Since the “people who understand shall instruct many” in Daniel 11:33,
the famine of the word of Amos 8:11-12 would not seem to have truly happened
prior to this.
·
Hence, since Daniel 11:33 is after Daniel 11:30, Amos
8:11-12 does not seem to be fulfilled until after the start of the 1335 days.
Thus, I recommend the re-wording.
Should you wish to read more details on that and
other aspects of Daniel 11, a paper on this is attached. And I may make some
changes to some of those details in the future.
Best regards,
Bob Thiel
No direct response was received to the above email from the Charlotte
evangelists. But was that paper "pushy" or somehow improper?
Furthermore, in order to keep a promise that I had made to Richard Ames
on 10/08/12, on 12/14/2012, I sent the Charlotte evangelists the following in
an email:
Dear Charlotte-based Evangelists:
After services on the Last Great Day, I promised
Richard Ames a paper on various aspects of the final phase of the work.
Let's begin with some brief history. As you all
probably are aware, by 1970, the old Worldwide Church of God estimated that it
was regularly (as opposed to only cumulatively) reaching 150
million people through radio and television (Kelly R, Robinson J. Ambassador
College Big Sandy Campus. Good News, July-August 1970, p. 4).
The next year, Herbert Armstrong wrote:
We now are reaching more than 150 million...Think
of it! —that is one in every twenty-three of all the people on earth, or one in
every sixteen persons above age fourteen. (Armstrong HW. Co-worker Letter, May
28, 1971)
Herbert Armstrong also met personally with world
leaders in Europe, North America, Africa, India, China, Japan, Philippines,
Israel, Jordan, Egypt, and elsewhere to give a witness of the gospel to the
world.
But that was the 20th century. So, what about the
21st century?
On a cumulative basis, out of Arroyo Grande (mainly
through the internet and radio interviews), millions have been reached. On a
cumulative basis, out of Charlotte (mainly through television, printed
publications, and the internet), multiple millions have been reached.
But this, even including the growth that we both
have had this year, is a mere fraction of Herbert W. Armstrong’s 1971 reach—and
even if he overstated the reach, he reached even more in the 1980s than the
early 1970s—which is still many times more people than are being reached now.
I, like the late Dibar Apartian did, believe that I
could assist in not only working on aspects of the message, but in increasing
the impact of the efforts in Charlotte through making aspects more interesting,
more relevant, accurate, etc. More impact is needed in the 21st century than in
the 20th century.
As you all are aware, it is the faithful in the
Church of God that will finish the final phase of the work before (Matthew
24:14-15) and during (Revelation 11:3-14) the Great Tribulation and Day of the
Lord. And, at least in my view, the final phase will also involve dealing with
the King of the North and the ecumenical religion that will rise up (cf. Daniel
11:28-44; Revelation 13:4,8; 14:8-13; Matthew 24:14-15). This could be the
“short work” that the late John Ogwyn felt that the
Apostle Paul wrote about (Romans 9:28). Those involved in that phase should not
be ignorant of Satan's devices (cf. Job 5:12; 2 Corinthians 2:11), which is one
reason that knowledge of his plan is helpful.
But that does not mean that more impact cannot, or
should not, happen before the final year or so before the Great Tribulation
begins.
About a decade ago, Dr. Meredith essentially agreed
and stated to me that in the end it would not mainly be the message of the COG
vs. the Protestants, but it would be the COG basically vs. the ecumenical
religion that will rise up in the end that will likely (for a while) refer to
itself as "Catholic." In 2005 during the Feast of Tabernacles in
Clearwater Beach, after a private lunch, we and our wives met at his hotel room
and I discussed various aspects of the final phase of the work with him.
Partially, because of this, a few weeks later I
spoke with Dr. D. Winnail about me pursuing more
formal education in theology and early Church history (and he encouraged me to
do so), and then did so. With Evangelist Richard Ames, I discussed parts of the
final phase of the work briefly on the Last Great Day in 2012, and he concurred
with Dr. Meredith’s assessment about this phase would mainly consist of the COG
vs. the ecumenical “Catholic” faith and less related to the Protestants.
This final phase of the work seemingly will consist
of finishing proclamation of Christ's gospel of the kingdom as a witness along
with persecution (Matthew 24:9-14), identifying what is happening in the world
(specifically also in Europe, the Middle East, and the Anglo-descended
nations), the rise and work of the two witnesses (Revelation 11:2-12) (which
will likely overlap a few days of Matthew 24:14), the likely assistance to the
two witnesses by the scattered flock (cf. Luke 9:2-6), the three angels'
messages (Revelation 14:8-11; and other angelic proclamations), and the witness
of those persecuted and martyred for Jesus (cf. Revelation 17:6).
It remains my opinion that when the European King
of the North is publicly identified, and the media picks this up, that this
will cause the King of the North to become furious (cf. Daniel 11:28,30). This
media attention will magnify at least parts of the message, and likely lead to
the final fulfillment of Matthew 24:14. Probably prior to unleashing direct
persecution, the King of the North and/or his allies are likely to go through
COG literature to look for errors, contradictions, and anything else to
discredit God’s Church. This will likely cause the way of truth to be
blasphemed (cf. 2 Peter 2:1-2). Real steps should be taken to minimize this.
Now, I am not saying that any in Charlotte are
intentionally trying to teach known error (even though I believe there are
doctrinal errors coming from Charlotte). Yet, related to matters of history,
Charlotte has intentionally sent out, for one example, church history booklets
that contain known error (and still does so). This complicates, in my view, the
final phase of the work.
Those of us who have a love of the truth (2
Thessalonians 2:10) need to place a very high priority on the accuracy of what
is taught (cf. Acts 18:25-26), properly protect “the pearl of great price”
(Matthew 13:45-46), and take away the stumbling block (Isaiah 57:14) of error
(Jeremiah 23:24; Mark 12:24), which can cause unnecessary offense (Matthew
18:7).
The point of this email is to encourage LCG to make
decisions and take more steps to correct various issues that I have brought up
in the past in preparation for the final phase of the work, consider some of
the ramifications of not doing so, and to consider how the final phase of the
work will be accomplished.
A lot has happened in the past year. Yet, it still
remains my view that if Charlotte and I can actually work closer together, that
this could possibly be more effective in finishing the final phase of the work
than our working further apart. If that is not God’s will, however, the final
phase of the work will get done.
Please let me know if you want additional
involvement or distance.
Best regards,
Bob Thiel
Was that "pushy" or somehow improper coming from an appointed
advisor?
Yet, the response I got to that on 12/28/12 ignored all the specifics
(although I did conclude that "distance" was what Charlotte chose),
but instead contained a tirade of accusations, attacks, false witness, etc.
about me. This is the truth for those still interested in it.
Continuing with Dr. Meredith’s letter:
However, Bob, your own remarkable vanity and
“dreams of greatness” have greatly affected your ability to think clearly many
times.
Over the last few years, many of
us have noted that you have begun to think of yourself in terms that are not
realistic.
Did God speak to Dr. Meredith to tell him this? Since he did not
make that claim, how does he know what I dream or my dreams are since we never
discussed them {in this context}? How can he be so certain in his accusations? And why
would he spread this type of accusation without speaking with me? What
did I say that was not realistic, as this never was mentioned to me before? Was
it the idea that more people need to be reached to fulfill Matthew 24:14 as
mentioned in the email dated 12/14/12?
The Bible warns against spreading improper accusations, for
"whoever spreads slander is a fool" (Proverbs 10:18). Certainly
Dr. Meredith is aware that one who appeared to be a leader, but was rejected by
God (1 Samuel 16:6-7) accused David of a type of vanity (1 Samuel 17:28)—which
David essentially denied (1 Samuel 17:29). And while I am not perfect, I
do deny the type of accusations that Dr. Meredith made in this 12/28/12
letter.
Furthermore, while I did mention to Dr. Meredith and others in LCG about
a dream from God, they never asked the details and did not know what was in it,
and they were never given any hint of its content (until it was publicly
released on November 8, 2013). He and others should not be like Joseph’s
brothers were when they condemned Joseph for having dreams from God (Genesis
37:5-11). Like Joseph’s, over time, it was clear that one dream I had was
coming to pass.
Additionally, a woman in New Zealand had a dream after going to bed on
12/08/12 that was later at least partially fulfilled and included matters
related to me (and it is a dream I did not learn about until the Feast of
Tabernacles in 2013, and after I had unknowingly helped fulfill the dream she
related to me. God sometimes works in spiritual ways and apparently just
because He may not have done so as directly through Dr. Meredith, that does not
mean He does not do so with others (Acts 2:17-18; see also Dreams, the Bible, and the
Continuing Church of God).
Dr. Meredith continued with:
Also, to abet your desires to be a “great one” in
the Work, you have carefully and cleverly twisted and enlarged
upon many things people have mentioned to you.
Telling the truth about what happened is not twisting things.
Moses was essentially accused by leaders of being too presumptuous (Numbers
16:3) and Moses correctly accused his accusers themselves of the same (Numbers
16:7). I do not believe I literally have thought about wanting to be “a great
one in the Work.” Accusing me of that as well as supposedly cleverly
twisting things is an improper accusation (cf. 2 Peter 2:10-11, KJV).
Furthermore, Dr. Meredith himself essentially was accused of having
desires to be a great one (by others in the past) — could resentment of
that have been a reason he decided to do what he did? Another fact may be
of interest here. I used to NOT have my name almost anywhere at the
www.cogwriter.com website. To this day, the three daily news post mostly simply
state by COGwriter (and yes with a link, but before that there were no links,
the article sometimes said by COGwriter or listed no author at all—see articles posted at the Church of God News page in 2007). The reason
that I began to even put my name on the bottom of most of the regular articles
at COGwriter.com and even listing by COGwriter with a link was because Dr.
Meredith told me in or around January 2008 to do so. I had resisted as I was not looking for personal attention or
'greatness' in the sight of men.
His letter against me shows that despite having many opportunities to
deal with his own issues, Dr. Meredith became a judge and false accuser of the
brethren, which in my view, disqualifies him from heading a church with the
Philadelphia mantle. He published conclusions and accusations without
ever discussing this with me, in violation of Matthew 18:15-17 and Galatians
6:1-4 as well as the ninth commandment against bearing false witness (Exodus
20:16). Nor as of the date that I am writing this has he indicated any desire
to repent of what he has done to my reputation, etc.
Dr. Meredith continued with:
Throughout this entire “chronology” paper you have
done this over and over.
My chronology told the documented truth—it contains specific dates and
names. This letter against me is over and over again making accusations,
mainly without specifics, and coming to conclusions that a humble Christian
leader would not have come to and distributed the way Dr. Meredith did.
Dr. Meredith continued with:
Recently, I had a meeting with Messrs. Ames, Winnail, Wakefield and my son, Jim, to discuss this paper
you sent to Mr. Wakefield (and now I see you have also sent it to Messrs. Tyler
and Weston). All of us in the meeting except Mr. Wakefield have gotten to know
you somewhat and have heard many others express concern about your egotistical
ideas that you believe you are a prophet or one of the two witnesses. I will
not take the time to argue about every single point you bring up in your paper;
that is not the important matter. I will just say that over and over you
subtly twist, enlarge upon or exaggerate many of the things
you think you heard—some of which you may have “partially heard” but enlarged
upon in your own mind and received in a way that was not intended by the one
doing the speaking.
It was Dr. Meredith who called and told me that God may consider me to be a prophet, thus calling this my egotistical idea is wrong. Will he not take proper responsibility for what he has said about this?
As far as his son goes, Dr. Meredith told me years prior to ignore the views that his son Jim
had against me. Jim wanted cogwriter.com shut down years ago and
Dr. Meredith did not agree with his son Jim then. The fact that Jim (who is
also a big American football fan) advised his father to go against me in this
letter is no surprise. My paper did not exaggerate the facts (though it
is true that some do not remember what they said and truly some do not realize
the relevance of some statements that they made).
As far as claiming to be one of the two witnesses, while one or more
biblical and Catholic prophecies may point to me that way, I have not made that
claim, and Dr. Meredith should have known that. He and I even discussed it in December 2011 and he did not launch any
attack then. The fact is that even Dr. D. Winnail told me during the Feast of Tabernacles in 2011 that he once thought he might
be one of the two witnesses. So, is Dr. Winnail getting publicly attacked by Dr. Meredith for that?
Furthermore, the fact is that Dr. Meredith seemed to support what I said
about the two witnesses before (we had a private lunch with only he, myself, my
wife Joyce, and our son David where we discussed it at the Feast of Tabernacles
in Panama City, Florida in 2011). Thus, this should indicate that my position
about possibly being one is not twisting anything. God Himself will
choose who the two witnesses are and even if I may be a candidate, I have not
appointed myself one (information on them is in the article Who Are The Two Witnesses?).
Does God Answer Prayer or Lead by His
Spirit?
Dr. Meredith continued with:
Near the very beginning of your paper you try to
quote Gary Ehman as saying that God has used you to “prepare the Church” and
then you go way beyond what Mr. Ehman intended to say.
That is Dr. Meredith’s view, but this happened after I prayed about
something happening like this in Charlotte back then and it did (and Gary Ehman
said some version of this to me more than once). God does answer prayers
and sometimes people do not always understand how He does so.
Dr. Meredith continued with:
Then, you did the same thing relating to the
January 6, 2000 incident about me saying, “That is you” in relation to Roman
Catholic prophecies.
This happened after I prayed about something happening like this in
Charlotte back then and it did (Dr. Meredith has the year wrong, it should have
been 2007). God does answer prayers and sometimes people do not always
understand how He does so. The Bible shows that even the High Priest said
something that he did not intend to be understood as literal as it was and it
was coming from God (John 11:49-52). Dr. Meredith also did not condemn my
explanation and use of Catholic prophecies then.
Dr. Meredith continued with:
Then, you indicate that you told Davy Crockett that
I was going to be “hit” with something bad to teach me a lesson. Then, you
indicate that the “ministroke” I had in September
2008 was in fulfillment of that prophecy. Bob, I never knew
that you had given such a prophecy and never felt that this
min-stroke I had at age 78 was any sort of “fulfillment” of anything you had
ever said!
Now I never previously told Dr. Meredith this in an effort to not offend
him and hopefully to work better with him. I did, however, specifically
discuss this with Davy Crockett on more than one occasion.
Furthermore, Dr. Meredith admitted to me about a month after the stroke
that he felt that God was trying to correct him. At that time I tried to
explain to Dr. Meredith some areas that perhaps he needed to correct and he
agreed. Thus, since Dr. Meredith (at that time) seemed to have gotten the
message (though he later did not do all he indicated to me that he would) there
seemed to be no needed reason to bring this detail up to him then.
Dr. Meredith continued with:
Bob, do you really believe that you “prophesied” to
my having a stroke, and that it was a direct result of my not heeding
correction from you?
I believe I was led by God’s Spirit to conclude and state what I did to
Davy Crockett. The Bible teaches "prophecy never came by the will of
man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" (2
Peter 1:21). Many did not believe Jesus, despite what He said and did (John
10:25). By the date of this letter, Dr. Meredith was also aware of many
other statements that I made that came to pass as we discussed them in meetings
in December 2011. He also had lots of confirmation of my prophetic insights by
12/28/12. Does Dr. Meredith really believe that all of this was simply
coincidental? Since he has offered no proof that this was not from God, why
will he not accept it?
Now to answer the second part of his question above, it was not because
of Dr. Meredith not heeding correction from me per se that he
had the stroke, but I believe that his first ministroke (and subsequent ones) was the result of him not keeping his word and failing to
take actions that he told me he would and/or should take.
A Haughty Spirit Goes Before a Fall
Dr. Meredith continued with:
I strongly suggest you consider Proverbs 16:18,
“Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.”
Since Dr. Meredith has had a lot befall him, he perhaps should consider
how Proverbs 16:18 and passages in Isaiah 22 may apply to him?
As far as a fall, it is LCG that, internet-wise, seems to have had a
relative popularity fall since I left eleven months ago.
Although some in LCG prefer to believe their internet impact is higher
than it is, I like to use a source such as Alexa to
give a relative impact on how websites compare to the multiple millions of
sites out there. One page suggested that there are about 500,000,000 websites
and uses a rolling three months impact to rank popularity. Here are some
comments about Alexa's rankings:
Alexa Rank Checker is one
of the most accurate and freely available tools to find out how well your site
ranks up against millions of other sites on the
Web. http://www.seomastering.com/alexa-rank-checker.php viewed 10/31/13
The lower the number of an Alexa rating the
greater the impact. For example, google.com has an Alexa ranking of 1, meaning it is the most popular website in the world, and
facebook.com has an Alexa ranking of 2, meaning that
it is the second most popular website in the world according to Alexa (number 3 is YouTube.com). As of 2013, Alexa provides traffic data, global rankings and other
information on 30 million websites.
Here is the Alexa ranked popularity of the
main websites of CCOG and LCG that were displayed by Alexa 11/27/13:
1.
COGwriter.com (Continuing Church of God) 127,571
2.
tomorrowsworld.org (Living Church of God) 352,767
3.
lcg.org (Living Church of God) 361,007
4.
ccog.org (Continuing Church of God) 660,347
What the above clearly does show is that despite all the money and
effort that LCG has put into its internet presence, the COGwriter.com website
is much, much, more popular than any official LCG website. And while Alexa rankings frequently change (so COGwriter may drop for a time), those who thought that
the impact of the Continuing Church of God on the internet
and elsewhere to fulfill Matthew 24:14 would be similar to all the other actual
COG groups that left LCG have been proven to have been in error.
While prior to the formation of the Continuing Church of God, the COGwriter.com sometimes was slightly more popular via Alexa rankings than one or both of LCG’s major websites, it never was this significantly more popular like this until well after my departure from LCG. And while Alexa rankings will vary (and perhaps LCG will spend even more money to affect this and try to appear to be more popular), hopefully it shows that the Continuing Church of God has had significant effectiveness in this media.
It is LCG that has had a fall since my departure as its Alexa ranking used to be in the two hundred thousands, not three hundred thousands, as was COGwriter.com.
More Denials of Statements Made
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
Then your letter goes to October 3, 2008 where you
say that I said, “God may consider you to be a prophet.” Bob, as you well know,
I had my stroke in September 2008 and was still very weak and disoriented as a
result of it. That you would take anything that I said in that time period and
try to use it is not right. I do not ever remember saying anything like that,
and I can assure you that I have never thought you might be a
prophet!
That last statement is blatantly false. Dr. Meredith told me this
on more than one occasion and we discussed it—and at least two
other LCG evangelists confirmed this with me personally—and the three Charlotte
evangelists and I even all discussed it together in December 2011. Again,
remember that it was Dr. Meredith who telephoned me on October 3, 2008 to tell
me that God may consider me to be a prophet. Instead of considering that
God was perhaps revealing something to him, Dr. Meredith years later is
attempting to say it was not the case. How can one who is
basically claiming memory lapses boldly insist he did not think something?
Furthermore, on October 3, 2008 Dr. Meredith and I had an extensive
telephone conversation related to this—it was not just some
random statement he made. For him to try to say he never thought I may be
a prophet is wrong. He may no longer remember (and does have provable
memory lapses), but for him to deny it as he did, he is absolutely bearing
false witness, though he probably does not see it that way. Of course, he
NEVER should have sent this letter out with false information and AT LEAST
should have spoken to me about his denials before he published them. He
had letters/emails from me for years related to the prophet matter.
Furthermore he also received the chronology he objected to here for at least
five months before he issued this letter of his.
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
But if I did make some kind of
statement in this regard, I was simply trying to encourage you to go on and
grow in your understanding of the Bible and willingness to serve.
There was no IF, Dr. Meredith said it—and he and I discussed it
extensively. I also met with Dr. J. Fall and Dibar Apartian about it
within a week or two of this happening during the Feast of Tabernacles in
Evian, France in 2008. There is no IF. Dr. Fall should recall this for any
who may wish to verify this with him.
Furthermore, how often has the top leader of a COG told a member that
God may consider him to be a prophet? Plus, it was Dr. Meredith called me
to tell me this—I was not at the time discouraged about anything that I can
recall that would make him feel he had to say this to “encourage” me. Dr.
Meredith’s 12/28/12 response against me is sad. He should have let people
believe the truth instead of denying it as he did.
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
Then you go to January 2009 where you say I told
you that if I was raised to the office of apostle, I was “considering ordaining
Bob Thiel as a prophet.” That, Bob, is simply not true! For I
have never, at any time—considered ordaining you as a prophet.
Dr. Meredith who earlier faulted his ministroke for stating that God may consider me to be a prophet here is now flatly denying
that he said something that he said. What I said was and is true.
He should consider that perhaps his memory is faulty or he later chose to
forget something he said.
I wrote down what he said then in my notes—there is no doubt that he said what I said he did. I had found his comment disturbing at the time, because his relative 'rank' should have had no bearing on what office I should possibly be ordained to—that is not proper church governance and ignores how God (and not an evangelist) may choose to work. The reality is that Dr. Meredith realized that prophets came ahead of evangelists in scriptures like Ephesians 4:11, which affected his actions in a non-biblical way. Thus, this really got me wondering about his desire to hold on to power as opposed to doing what was best for the work of God.
Additionally, all should consider that nowhere has Dr. Meredith truly attempted to disprove that I am or could be a prophet. He did not use the Bible nor the understandings of that the old Radio and old Worldwide Church of God had on this (those interested in more details should check out the article How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God). Denials by him of what he said and his apparent disbelief of facts and how God sometimes answers prayers are not proof.
Condemning Use of Catholic Prophecies
is Hypocritical
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
This is not because I don’t “like” you, but rather
because I have understood for years your tendency to bring in “odd” or
“Catholic prophesies” or put unusual twists on scripture in such a way that no
true prophet of God would ever do.
This letter certainly suggests that Dr. Meredith really did not like me
or care what he might do to damage my reputation. It should also be understood
that I do meet the standards that Dr. Meredith himself and others in the old
WCG said the Bible taught (for details, please see How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of
God).
If, as he has written, the above is something that Dr. Meredith
understood for years, why would he tell me that God may consider me to be a
prophet and not object to me about my use of Catholic and Islamic prophecies in
prior years? Why would he a year earlier have told me to continue to do
the types of writings and other works I was doing?
The Apostle Paul considered that he was a prophet (1 Corinthians 13:9),
and he cited non-biblical, pagan, prophecies/sources, etc. (Acts 17:18-30) as
he tried to reach all (1 Corinthians 9:19-22)—should this have disqualified him
according to what Dr. Meredith seemingly implied? The Apostle Paul also felt
the need to defend himself against a variety of charges from people who were in
the Church of God (2 Corinthians 11:5,16-33; 10:10-16; Galatians 1:1; Ephesians
1:1; 1 Timothy 1:1).
Furthermore, various prophets, such as Micaiah (1 Kings 22:10-28) and Jeremiah (Jeremiah 28:1-17) explained how pagan
prophecies impacted God's prophecies. And what I have tried to do is follow
Paul, Micaiah, Jeremiah, and others who have done
this.
Please also consider
the following facts:
1) Dr. Meredith told me in 2009 that he was praying
for the success of my book 2012 and the Rise of the Secret Sect.
Dibar Apartian read the book at the time and also approved its content. That
particular book had many of the exact same Catholic and Muslim prophecies that
were also in the Barack Obama and the Destruction of the United States book.
Chapter 8 of 2012 and the Rise of the
Secret Sect was titled Barack Obama, Islam, and the End of
America. Chapter 8 of 2012 and the Rise of the Secret Sect had
the same photo of US President Barack Obama that was on the front cover Barack
Obama and the Destruction of the United States book combined with the
fire that was shown on the cover on my 2012 and the Rise of the Secret
Sect book. Yet on September 8, 2012, members in the Living
Church of God were read at services a letter from Dr. Meredith condemning my
new book Barack Obama and the Destruction of the United States by
stating it had “much of which we do not agree with.” No doctrinal errors
in that book were ever brought up to me by Charlotte.
2) All of the three Charlotte-based evangelists in
the Living Church of God (and others in that church) cite Catholic and Muslim
prophecies themselves. LCG literature contains references to the prophecies of
Catholic Bishop Malachy and this has happened even
after 'condemning' me for doing so. For one example, see the cover article by
Dr. D. Winnail in May-June 2013 edition of Tomorrow's
World magazine titled Francis I: The Final Pope? It
referred to the Malachy prophecies. Others have as
well (e.g. The pope resigns: what’s next? LCG Commentary, February 15, 2013).
Furthermore not including the weekly updates, LCG
has mentioned the Imam Mahdi in at least nine
articles (for one example, see Middle East events and Muslim prophecy,
Commentary, April 06, 2011) and one booklet. Here is a quote from a booklet by Dr.
Meredith:
Indeed, a coming "Mahdi"
whose arrival Muslims are expecting—in Bible prophecy known as the "King
of the South" (Daniel 11:40–45)—will soon arise and have a dramatic impact
on world events. This powerful Muslim religious leader will unite many of the
more than one billion Muslims. He will pose a genuine threat to the coming
European Empire, which will have to crush that threat in order to continue
exploiting Middle Eastern oil to further its military ambitions. (Meredith RC.
Prophecy Fulfilled: God's Hand in World Affairs. LCG booklet)
The Imam Mahdi is a
person specifically from Shi-ite Muslim prophecy.
LCG has also referred to other non-biblical
prophecies in a variety of its materials.
3) Back in 2009 to encourage me
to use Catholic prophecies, evangelist Richard Ames told me that the old Radio
Church of God had used Catholic prophecies the same way that I had used them.
He then had William Bowmer give me a copy of a
1964 Good News article by the late David Jon Hill that did so
titled Will You Be Deceived by
Antichrist? The old Radio Church of God looked at and used such prophecies.
Furthermore, on December 16, 2011, Richard Ames publicly
prayed, with “amen” concurrence from Dr. Meredith and Dr. Winnail,
that I would continue to do the type of work that I had been doing—and that work included the frequent references to these non-biblical
prophecies as a means to reach and/or interest those without a Church of God
background. It was not right for Dr. Meredith to give “amen” concurrence if for
years he had problems with what I was doing. People should ask themselves
why he clearly changed?
4) Probably the reason for the condemnation of
Catholic prophecies was that several leaders in Charlotte understood that at
least one of those prophecies seemed to point to me personally. And if people
considered that any Catholic prophecies could be true, this could interfere with
certain leaders' visions for the future of LCG. Thus, by condemning my use of
them, some apparently hoped that various ones would not consider that one or
more could potentially be correct. Because if so, that would have been further
confirmation that my prophetic ‘double-portion’ anointing was valid. Of course,
I have not ever claimed that any should rely on non-biblical prophecies, only
that they should be considered in the light of biblical prophecy, etc. But this
was seemingly “too close for comfort” for some in September-December 2012.
5) In his letter to me of September 13, 2013, Dr.
Meredith admitted that I did not treat non-biblical prophecies the same as
biblical ones as he wrote, “I know you don’t say it that way.” Hence, I was
somewhat condemned for something that Dr. Meredith realized that I had not
done. Yet, he and others condemned me. And others went along with it,
misunderstanding that proper church governance does not violate the command
against false witness.
Condemning me for the properly citing of non-biblical prophecies is
wrong and hypocritical. But that is what LCG did. In the past, the
late Herbert W. Armstrong specifically objected to Dr. Meredith's 'hypocrisy'—which is something to still consider today.
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
You are probably correct in your statement that in
the Spring/Summer of 2009 I may have told you that I was “praying for the
success” of your prophetic book. For I have tried to be your
friend and encourage you without giving you delusions of
“grandeur.”
Probably correct? No, that was and is completely accurate—Dr.
Meredith told me that he was praying for the success of that 2012 book and I
told many others afterwards that Dr. Meredith said that. The 2012 book was
filled with biblical, Catholic, Islamic, and other predictions.
If I was doing something inappropriately ‘odd’ then Dr. Meredith should
have raised objections, and not stated he was praying for book
distribution success. A faithful friend tries to talk to one's friend
privately, and does not attempt to publicly libel him (cf. Proverbs 11:31).
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
However, it appears that any encouraging thing that
I or most anyone else has told you seems to be adding to this “delusions of
grandeur” feeling you have about yourself.
The “delusions of grandeur” accusation is false. Dr. Meredith
should be careful about his “delusions of grandeur” and other
accusations. He NEVER mentioned anything like this to me personally in
violation of Matthew 18 as well as in violation of Galatians 6.
Furthermore, he had no right to make this letter to me public, which he and
others did, also in violation of Matthew 18.
Dibar Apartian, Richard Ames, and
Douglas Winnail
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
Then, in your paper, you go on to describe your
meeting with me in Panama City and later with Dibar Apartian who, you
say, “believed” then that God had a top prophetic role for Bob Thiel.
However, all of us who knew Mr. Apartian at that time and have
talked to him many times about these matters know that Mr. Apartian did
not think of you as a prophet. You can easily ascertain that by
talking to Mrs. Apartian, Mr. Ames, Dr. Winnail and
all of us.
I had many conversations with Dibar Apartian and know what he said to
me, including that he told me that in meetings you said that I may/seem to be a
prophet. He also told me that he suspected that I "was the one,"
meaning the one to lead the work in the end—and that came from
Dibar Apartian, not me. Dibar Apartian also told me that he intended to discuss
more of this with Dr. Meredith, then shortly before he died he indicated to me
that he never did. I should probably add that I also had some
conversations of a more limited nature with his wife and will simply say Dr.
Meredith would not like me to post all that I have learned from Dibar and
Shirley Apartian and that I have not borne false witness.
Richard Ames, of course, is the one who prayed that I would continue to
do all the type of work I was doing on December 16, 2011, and he had plenty of
information on the prophet matter then as it was specifically brought up in the
meeting we all had that day as well as one the day before.
Dr. Winnail made certain statements to me that
he absolutely and completely made that are in the posted chronology. Sadly,
there were some statements which he later denied, hence there is little point
discussing those with him again. But even he admitted in an email to me
dated January 7, 2013 concerning myself and the Charlotte-based evangelists,
“When we made comments to you that ‘you may be a prophet’ (and that could
include some point in the future) that was to be kind to you.” An odd thing for
him to write if the three Charlotte evangelists had not done it.
More Accusations and Inaccurate
Portrayals
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
Bob, since you have this powerful feeling
of “greatness” you often “read into” what anyone says. This kind of idea of you
being a prophet that is pounding away in the back of your mind is once again
causing you to twist your own memory of what is said by others.
Notice again the accusation based upon assumptions and improper
conclusions on Dr. Meredith’s part. Is he “reading into” things himself?
Most of the times he and I actually discussed me possibly being a
prophet, he seemed to be the one to bring it up. So, to later suggest that
this was a product of my imagination, “pounding away in the back of my mind,”
etc. is improper.
Those who accept the validity of the dream that Fesilafai Fiso Leaana of New Zealand
reported she had, would, of course, realize that there was Divine confirmation
that this was not my imagination. Jesus and the Apostle Paul both taught,
"by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be
established" (Matthew 18:16; 2 Corinthians 13:1).
Dr. Meredith’s saying that my memory twisted things is
improper. Also recall he is the one who is claiming that he should not be
responsible for all that he said. The reality is that I did write down
notes related to some of these matters at the time, hence this was not a matter
of me twisting anything.
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
Later in the paper, you talk about Dr. Fall and
Gary Ehman being approached by you about your desire to “have hands laid upon
you” in order to ask for healing and for wisdom before meeting with evangelists
here at Headquarters. As you point out, they did not agree to do so.
No, that is not at all the case. I never asked Dr. Fall (who was
then in California) and only intended to ask Gary Ehman (who was in
Charlotte). The fact that Gary Ehman was ill that morning and not in to
do it does not mean that he refused—he never refused as he was never
asked. This is yet another factually false claim by Dr. Meredith (and/or
whoever probably helped him write this).
Attacking Gaylyn Bonjour's French
Heritage
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
Then on December 15, 2011 you went to Gaylyn
Bonjour and asked him to anoint you for an apparent physical ailment, but also
asked him to ask God to give you wisdom in the upcoming meetings with the HQ
Evangelists. He agreed to do this and, as is his normal approach—he can be
emotional and heartfelt about the matter and asked God to grant you a
“double-portion of His Holy Spirit.” Others have told me that, being partly of
French ancestry, Mr. Bonjour is often emotional and very heartfelt when he
anoints anyone.
At least Dr. Meredith recognizes that Gaylyn Bonjour did, in fact, ask
God to grant me a double-portion of the Holy Spirit. It should be clear to all
interested in the truth that this did indeed happen.
Gaylyn Bonjour told me that he never asked God to grant anyone else a
double-portion of His Spirit, and he has anointed many people. Suggesting
that he erred because of his French ancestry is an affront to what happened as
well as to the French.
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
Mr. Bonjour has confirmed he in no
way was intending to ask God to make you a prophet! Yet, because of
your vivid imagination and fervent desire to exalt yourself to
that role, you “took it” that way—as you do so with many other
things.
If Dr. Meredith considered that Gaylyn Bonjour was an emotionally
out-of-control minister, why would he have allowed him to remain a
minister? Should Dr. Meredith at least have had someone correct Gaylyn
Bonjour about this in the past? Well, that never happened, and I confirmed
that it did not when Gaylyn Bonjour and I discussed it earlier this
month.
Thus, this line of ‘reasoning’ also is not biblically-proper as it seems
to be an affront against Gaylyn Bonjour for carrying out ministerial duties.
Now it is true that to anoint me as a prophet was not Gaylyn Bonjour’s intent,
yet Gaylyn and I discussed this in detail—and he brought up the passing of the
mantle to me when we discussed it.
All may wish to recall that it was also not Isaac's intent to provide a
blessing to Jacob--actually Isaac specifically did not want to do it, but that is what he did—and God honored that
even though Jacob was being deceptive (Genesis 27:6-35). Unlike Jacob, I
was not being deceptive. And Gaylyn Bonjour did understand the ramifications of what he stated that God's Spirit may have led him to do.
In addition to discussing this anointing with Dr. Meredith on March 23,
2012, I sent him some version of the following in July 2012:
On the morning of December 15, 2011, upon arriving
at the Charlotte HQ of LCG, I asked to meet with Gary Ehman as I wanted to get
anointed for some non-debilitating matters as well as to ask him to pray that I
be granted wisdom for my meetings with the HQ evangelists. But Gary Ehman
was not in. So instead, I asked to meet with Gaylyn Bonjour (with whom I
never had any discussions prior about me possibly being some type of
prophet). I asked Gaylyn Bonjour if he would do the anointing and pray
that God would grant me wisdom for the meetings. He agreed. But
while laying hands upon me, Gaylyn Bonjour also happened (it was not planned
nor did I say anything to encourage this) to ask God to grant me a “double-portion”
of His Holy Spirit and anointed me with oil. Other than him apparently
mentioning Elijah and/or the ‘mantle”, I did not then have time to discuss what
this might mean with Gaylyn Bonjour as Monica Cormier came to the door of Gaylyn’s office for me to immediately attend a meeting with
the Charlotte evangelists.
On Sunday 12/18/11 night at a family wedding
reception, without discussing the matter, Bob Thiel stared at Gaylyn Bonjour
for a few moments, without saying anything and then asked, “Do you have any
idea of what you may have accidently done?” Gaylyn Bonjour said, “Yes, I
think so.”
The following Monday morning was Bob Thiel's first
opportunity to speak with Gaylyn Bonjour privately for more details about the
anointing. Bob Thiel asked him if it was his practice to pray that God
grant a double-portion of His Spirit to people that he anoints, he said, no he
had never done that for an individual before. Bob Thiel asked him if he
had any idea of what he may have been inadvertently led by God to do, and he
said yes. Gaylyn Bonjour also said that the only “double-portion” he
recalled from the Bible was when Elisha became the replacement prophet and
ecclesiastical leader for Elijah (2 Kings 2:9)—Bob Thiel told him then that
this was his recollection as well. Notice it was Gaylyn Bonjour, and not
Bob Thiel, who first stated this as a conclusion.
In March 2012, it seemed time to mention the
12/15/11 anointing and what Bob Thiel had tried to tell him about his wife to
Dr. Meredith and he was able to do so in telephone conversation. Yet,
first Bob Thiel called Gaylyn Bonjour to let him know that someone may end up
talking with him about the anointing. Gaylyn Bonjour was fine with that
and also said that he felt that the “double-portion” was related to “the
passing of the mantle.” This gave Bob Thiel a lot of pause to consider
since that time—and it came from Gaylyn Bonjour.
Gaylyn Bonjour did what he did after I prayed about this and when someone I intended to see was not available. Dr. Meredith does not seem to wish to see the possible hand of God in this. God does not always work as leader expect--Isaac had a plan, but God changed his. Something similar happened on 12/15/2011.
Mrs. Meredith's Stage Four Cancer
Diagnosis
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
Then you go on to somehow try to indicate
that you had special knowledge about how my wife was to be
“hit hard with something.” Consequently when it was announced in January that
she had come down with cancer, you deluded yourself into believing that you had
somehow prophesied this to happen. Nothing could be further from the truth! She
had not been feeling well for months, and the stage four diagnosis indicated
that this cancer had been growing inside her body for many months.
Constantly, in your paper, you seem to be “reading into” events that indicate
you were given something special by God about such matters.
The fact is that the diagnosis came the month after I tried to tell Dr.
Meredith about this type of thing. People can be feeling ill and only
have a relatively minor ailment. While he and others were aware of Mrs.
Meredith’s basic health status, I was not privy to that, and thus, yes, believe
I was led to the conclusion I did by the Holy Spirit. It is not ‘reading’
anything wrong when I felt that Mrs. Meredith was about to be struck with
something, tried to tell Dr. Meredith about it, and a few weeks later her
diagnosis came out. How Dr. Meredith can so vehemently deny what happened
is disappointing.
Anointing and Who is Fixated?
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
Then, you indicate that you feel that “only a
member of the eldership is required to anoint one as a prophet” and use 1
Timothy 4:14 as a proof text. Bob, 1 Timothy 4:14 is clearly, in context,
talking about the gift of God’s Holy Spirit given to Timothy as a Christian—not the
office of a prophet. Certainly, all of us have the laying on
of hands by the eldership after baptism to receive God’s Spirit. But this
Scripture is not talking about becoming a prophet, but
receiving God’s Spirit to help Timothy, “be an example to the believers in
word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity” (v.12).
All it takes to be anointed a prophet is for someone that God leads to
do the anointing. And normally, that would be expected to be a minister of
some sort. Dr. Meredith should know this.
Yet, when I discussed this with him on March 23, 2012, Dr. Meredith seemed to act like God would have directly used him, then later he indicated that one should be an evangelist or regional pastor to do this type of anointing—but no verse in the Bible supports this.
Dr. Meredith's current interpretation of 1 Timothy 4:14 differs from that of the old Radio Church of God. When Dr. Meredith was a Senior Editor for its Good News magazine, the following was published:
God gives special gifts-special powers of His Spirit-to those who are set apart by the laying on of hands. Remember that it was by the laying on of hands that Timothy received the added ability, called “prophecy” by the King James translators...(I Tim. 4:14 and II Tim. 1:6)... This spiritual gift of inspired preaching was conferred to Timothy by the laying on of hands... This proof-in-action of your willingness to submit to God’s human representative-God’s minister -for anointing and the laying on of hands is “acting out” your willingness to accept the spiritual Government of Almighty God Himself over your physical life (Ellis, William H. Why We Have the Laying on of Hands Ceremony. Good News. April-May 1965, pp. 11, 14,15)
Presumably he read and approved of the content of that article decades ago. It is sad that Dr. Meredith decided to change on this point in his 12/28/12 letter (see also How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God).
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
By “reading into” things that others tell you the
idea that you might be a prophet, you have deceived yourself—willingly of
course—so that your mind is now virtually “fixated” on the idea that you,
are a “prophet” of God.
Actually, no that is more false witness. Furthermore, please
consider that Dr. Meredith has not provided any biblical or other evidence that
truly disputes me having a prophetic role.
I am not fixated on the idea about being some type of a prophet of God.
It is more that I decided I had no choice but to accept the anointing that God
had done in answer to prayer. And after reading this letter from Dr.
Meredith, I concluded that since there was no possible way that he could have
the Philadelphia mantle, and that because of my ‘double-portion’ anointing,
that there was no option for me other than to lead the formation of the Continuing Church
of God.
It seems more like Dr. Meredith is fixated on the prophetic anointing as
that would suggest that he would be subject to listening and keeping his
promises to such a one. Additionally, promises should be kept, even to the
least of the people (cf. Matthew 25:40,45), as "office" should not be
a factor. Various ones (including one who, without being asked, on November 22,
2013) have communicated that Dr. Meredith did not keep various promises to
them.
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
However, what you utterly fail to recognize is that
a true prophet of God—in God’s New Testament times—has always been
clearly recognized as such by the ministry already in high offices in God’s
Church; who are shown by Christ—the living Head of the Church that
this person is in that office. Such an individual has always been
cooperative with those doing the Work and has never “set
himself up” all on his own to contradict, to compete, or to be a “lone wolf out
there” doing his own thing to exalt himself.
Actually, the New Testament is pretty clear that the top religious
leaders of Jesus’ day did not accept Him nor did they accept Paul, etc.
Even Christian leaders did not wish to accept Paul. Furthermore, Jesus
was clear that God’s people (including religious leaders) often did not
recognize God’s prophets (Matthew 23:29-37, 11:7-19; Luke 11:47-51). This
not something that I feel ‘exalted’ by either. (As far as being a
true prophet, a related article would be How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of
God.)
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
Although you think you are not like
“Ron Weinland” or others who have done this kind of
thing, your present statements and writings indicate that that is exactly what
you are becoming. Therefore, as the one Christ Himself has put
in the office of Presiding Evangelist and leading minister in the Church of
God doing the Work of God at this time, I want to tell you,
in love, that you need to realize you are not a
prophet, nor are you recognized as such by the Church or by Christ’s true
ministry whom He has set in authority in His Church. You need to humble
yourself and recognize that authority for your own
good. If you end up “fighting” or “competing” with the Work of the living
God, God will deal with you and He will humble you
in ways that we do not now fully understand. For “whom God loves He chastens,
and scourges every son whom He receives” (Hebrews 12:6).
At my age and in my office for so many years, Bob,
I can sincerely tell you that I have no feelings of hate or
competition with you. I simply want to help you “wake up” before it is
too late. I pray that God will help you to understand and heed what
I am now telling you as a servant of Jesus Christ who has faithfully served Him
full time for over 60 years. Please be willing to listen and
to heed what I am saying in the name of Jesus Christ!
I am not like Ron Weinland (see also Concerns About Ronald Weinland's Church of God-Preparing for the Kingdom of God). One who is bearing
false witness and making accusations in a letter like this is not one I can
accept is then saying this “in the name of Jesus Christ.”
Dr. Meredith seems to have convinced himself that he is speaking for
Jesus, but he is not the ‘vicar of Christ’ and should have been humble enough
to accept correction given to him in love related to his broken promises, as
well as to not have attacked me in violation of Jesus’ words in Matthew
18:15-17. The Bible shows that God does remove and replace religious leaders He has used once He determined they did not have the character or mental/emotional ability to continue to lead (cf. 1 Kings 19:13-18 and 2 Kings 2:9-13; Isaiah 22:15-25). Though in various sermons, Dr. Meredith has made statements denying that.
Furthermore, my discussions over the years with the Apartians made it clear to me that Dibar Apartian did not believe that Dr. Meredith was
"put in the office of Presiding Evangelist" by "Christ
Himself." He also clearly said that Dr. Meredith should be told
when he was wrong. Dibar Apartian repeatedly told me to remind Dr.
Meredith of his broken promises, improper priorities, etc. Dr. Meredith
seems fixated on his views of his position. Dr. Meredith may also wish to
consider ways that perhaps he has been humbled recently.
Asks if Dr. Thiel is With or Not With
LCG
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
Bob, you made the statement in your letter, “…his
then pastor (Dr. Fall)…” indicating that you may no longer consider yourself a
member of the Living Church of God. If that is not the case, and if you
are willing to repent, to listen and take correction, and continue to be a part
of the Living Church of God, I do ask you, in Jesus’ name to let us
know. If you are unwilling to heed the loving correction given in this
letter, and insist on cleaving to your view of yourself as a “prophet”, let us
know this also and we will understand that you have chosen to trod a different
path separate from the Living Church of God. At least you can be open and
honest about this.
This 12/28/12 letter was not loving correction. It was widely
distributed by Dr. Meredith in some attempt to discredit me—that is not how one dishes out loving correction. It remains my hope and
prayer that he will admit his errors here and repent.
My response to this letter on December 28, 2012 was to read it, pray
about, and call Dr. Jeff Fall. I told Dr. Fall that the content was wrong
and that it bore false witness and that I could not be part of the Living Church of God. Then, I
quickly responded to Dr. Meredith’s request about my status that same day with
an email as follows:
Dear Dr. Meredith:
Got your letter.
While you are entitled to your own opinions about
my vanity, etc. (it is God who judges), I vehemently deny many of the
accusations you made against me.
Your denying comments, about what you told me
personally about being a prophet, are badly mistaken. I have not
born false witness. In fact, I had written notes throughout the years
and that was what was in the chronology. Perhaps there is a lot
that you do not remember?
Anyway, it is abundantly clear to me that the
mantle is no longer in Charlotte. And the letter was just one more
confirmation. So, yes, I am no longer part of LCG, and yes, I called Dr.
Fall immediately after getting your letter to tell him.
In the future, hopefully, you will not allow others
to spread improper or inaccurate information about me.
To the pure, all things are pure.
Sincerely,
Bob Thiel
Despite my request that he not allow others to spread improper and
inaccurate information about me, he sent what he sent to me to dozens or more
who ultimately spread it further. As he requested, I was upfront and
honest about where I stood.
Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:
As the physical leader of God’s Church, I have an
obligation to protect the brethren from wolves, and I take this responsibility
seriously. If you turn aside and try to draw others to follow you down this
dangerous path, we will have to do everything we can to protect God’s people.
Dr. Meredith is a physical leader of a Church of God group which I do
not believe can hold the Philadelphia mantle. Since he does not and
cannot have the mantle (nor do his top leaders), his position does not make him
“the physical leader of God’s Church.”
12/28/12 Letter Concludes
Dr. Meredith's letter continued and concluded with:
I have prayed for you and will pray for
you much more in the days to come—asking God to guide you in His love
for your eternal good. I do ask you to let us hear from you as I have indicated
above. Our prayers will be with you, not against you. May God
guide you to do His will, and not your own.
With Christian love,
Roderick C. Meredith
I still pray pretty much daily for Dr. Meredith and that God’s will be
done (Matthew 6:10).
It is not Christian love to bear false witness.
It is not Christian love to make improper accusations.
It is not Christian love to ignore Matthew 18:15-17.
It is, however, Christian, to deny unprovable and false charges as I am trying to do that as that is also what the Apostle
Paul did (Acts 24:10-13).
Perhaps I should add that an LCG minister said that I was considered by
one of the Charlotte-evangelists to be the biggest ‘intellectual threat’ to
that evangelist’s ambitions and that was likely a certain factor of the letters
leading to my departure (there were also at least one or two field ministers
who held a similar view). I would also add that my unexpected anointing by an
LCG minister also caused several to worry that they might lose influence in LCG
if I remained around (and that could have hurt the feelings of some who
were fans of violent sports).
Pilate realized that the “chief priests” turned against Jesus because of
envy (Mark 15:10). And I would suggest that the facts about what LCG did,
suggests envy as at least a partial motivation, much more than love of the
truth.
Dr. Meredith’s letter was wrong and, in many places false. Yet he sent
it to the entire LCG ministry and one or more of his trusted supporters sent it
to be published on the internet for the entire world to see. I refrained
responding to many of the details of this letter until November 2013 as I was
not trying to start some type of war then, nor am I trying to do so now—my objective upon leaving LCG was to reach as many as possible with
getting the gospel out, so this took a while to get to.
However, I also believe that those who have heard some of the
accusations against me should be entitled to the truth (cf. Matthew 18:17) and
hopefully, this is enough information to help some who were otherwise confused
about it. Overall, the letter is filled with accusations and the bottom line is
that it appears to be a document intent upon character assassination.
So, some can believe, as Dr. Meredith apparently does/did that it was Jesus
who wanted him to deny statements he made to me and make a lot of accusations
against me, or they can believe the truth. Jesus said, “you know the
truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32).
In an article in the November-December 2013 edition of LCG's Tomorrow's
World magazine, Dr. Meredith wrote:
The Eternal God commands His true ministers: “Cry
aloud, spare not; lift up your voice like a trumpet; tell My people their
transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins” (Isaiah 58:1).
That is some of what I have tried to do as no one, even ministers, are
exempt from sin.
Yet, many have trapped themselves into believing traditions and
accusations above the truth.
Christians should love the truth and act upon it. Sadly many seem
to be content to think matters are fine when they are not (Revelation 3:14-22).
Now, I realize that I might be 'marked' for telling the truth now. But
if I do get 'marked' by LCG, realize it is for telling the truth. I have not
gone after their members to try to create division, but wrote this because
people asked me for facts and 'my side' of this.
This response contains the truth for those who can now bear it. Maybe
some who sleep will arise and support the final phase of the work (cf. Matthew
25:1-13; Acts 13:41).
Summary to Consider
TO CONCLUDE THAT DR. MEREDITH WAS RIGHT IN HIS 12/28/12 LETTER THEN ONE
BELIEVES THAT:
Moses, David, Jeremiah, Paul, others, including even Jesus, felt the
need to truthfully defend themselves against those that improperly attacked
them. Since Paul said to imitate him as he imitated Jesus (1 Corinthians 11;1),
I have attempted to do so in this response.
Many did not believe Moses, Paul, Jeremiah, and Jesus when they told the
truth. Hopefully, those reading this can believe me as I have also told the
truth.
COGwriter, November 27, 2013