Malaysian Flight 17: West outraged and points to separatists, while Russia and separatists point to Ukraine. Will Russia attack the USA?

Buk Missile Launcher (Владимир Саппинен)

The investigation continues into who and what caused Malaysian Flight 17 to crash two days ago. It now is universally believed it was shot down, with those in the West pointing to Russian-speaking separatists and those in Russia and the separatist regions in eastern Ukraine pointing to Kiev as the shooter:

July 19, 2104

HRABOVE, Ukraine—The prospects of a thorough investigation into the crash of Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU -11.11% Flight 17 fell into further doubt Saturday, as the Ukrainian government and rebels threw out barbs over the lack of any progress two days after the disaster.

Ukraine said separatist rebels were confiscating evidence gathered by a limited number of emergency services personnel at the scene, and a rebel leader accused multinational investigators of delaying the probe…

The U.S. and its allies accused Russian-aided separatists of firing the missile that downed the flight. Ukraine said Saturday that the Ukrainian separatists were in possession of three medium-range missile systems capable of bringing down commercial or military aircraft, but the rebels shipped these missile systems back to Russia hours after the Malaysia Airlines flight was shot down.

Russian officials and the separatists accuse Ukraine of shooting at the airliner…

Intelligence compiled by Ukrainian spies show that three Buk-M1 systems were shipped out of eastern Ukraine on flatbed trucks in two waves in the early morning of July 18, according to Vitaly Navda, who heads the counterintelligence division of Ukraine’s Security Service. A system missing a missile crossed the border in a flatbed truck to Russia at 2 a.m., and two other missile systems with complete set of missiles crossed at 4 a.m., he said.

U.S. officials and other intelligence agencies believe that Flight 17 was shot down by a missile system like the Buk, which was made by the Soviets and still in use by the Russian and Ukrainian militaries. http://online.wsj.com/articles/rebels-confiscate-evidence-at-malaysia-airlines-crash-ukraine-says-1405766927?tesla=y&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304223004580038812787465460.html

July 19, 2014

Putin immediately began casting blame on Ukraine and shielding the rebels from criticism. Some observers have suggested that this was a kneejerk reaction rather than a well-considered choice. “The Kremlin will, for all its immediate and instinctive bluster and spin, have to definitively and overtly withdraw from arming and protecting the rebels,” wrote Mark Galleoti, a prominent Russia expert and professor at New York University. “I suspect that when the histories are written, this will be deemed the day the insurgency lost. Or at least began to lose.” That may be true. But Russia’s behavior so far suggests that it will not stand by and watch the insurgency falter, regardless of how much evidence arises that its foot soldiers shot down that plane. Russian state television has already begun defending the rebels from blame, offering theories on the culpability of Ukraine’s armed forces. Once that message is chosen as the official line, the Kremlin will be wary of veering away from it. http://time.com/3007152/ukraine-crash-putin-russia-isolationism/

US President Barack Obama spoke about this yesterday:

July 18, 2014

President Obama delivered a statement to the press in the wake of the tragic crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17…

Evidence indicates that the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile that was launched from an area that is controlled by Russian-backed separatists inside of Ukraine. We also know that this is not the first time a plane has been shot down in eastern Ukraine. Over the last several weeks, Russian-backed separatists have shot down a Ukrainian transport plane and a Ukrainian helicopter, and they claimed responsibility for shooting down a Ukrainian fighter jet. Moreover, we know that these separatists have received a steady flow of support from Russia. This includes arms and training. It includes heavy weapons, and it includes anti-aircraft weapons…

“Evidence must not be tampered with,” he said. “Investigators need to access the crash site. And the solemn task of returning those who were lost on board the plane to their loved ones needs to go forward immediately.” http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/07/18/president-obama-speaks-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-russia-and-ukraine-and-situatio

Despite his statement, there are various reports that evidence has been tampered with already. Here is one:

July 19, 2014

KIEV, July 19:

Ukraine on Saturday accused Russia of helping separatist insurgents they say shot down Malaysian airliner MH17 try to destroy evidence at the crash site.

“The Ukrainian government officially announces: terrorists with the support of Russia are trying to destroy proof of this international crime,” Ukraine’s government said in a statement.

Pro-Moscow rebels had removed 38 bodies from the crash site to a morgue in the insurgent-controlled city of Donetsk where “specialists with clearly Russian accents” said they would conduct autopsies, the statement alleged.

Separatist forces were also blocking access to the site for Ukrainian investigators and international observers and searching for lorries to transport the wreckage to Russia, the statement claimed.

An AFP crew at the scene of the crash on Saturday said that armed rebels were preventing journalists from accessing the site and shot in the air to warn them back.

One rebel commander said that dozens of bodies had been removed to the morgue in Donetsk as rescue workers under their supervision continued to collect body parts.

“Twenty seven bodies were taken away” this morning, the insurgent commander said, refusing to give his name. http://www.therakyatpost.com/world/2014/07/19/kiev-says-rebels-trying-destroy-crash-evidence-russian-support/#ixzz37vBhGkw4

Hillary Clinton says that Europe needs to take the lead on the plane’s downing if Russia has any responsibility:

Hillary Clinton says there’s “growing awareness” that Malaysia Airlines passenger plane was probably shot down by Russian insurgents — but argued that European leaders must “take the lead” on any action if that proves to be the case…

“There does seem to be some growing awareness that it probably had to be Russian insurgents,” Clinton said. “Now, how we determine that will require some forensics, but then if there is evidence pointing in that direction, the equipment had to have come from Russia. What more the Russians may or may not have done, we don’t know.”

Asked about what the United States should do if there’s clear evidence Russia was involved, she said the responsibility really falls to Europe…

“As you know, the Europeans have tried to figure out the best way forward,” she said. “I was recently in Europe. A lot of questions about whether or not Russia was really the aggressor, whether or not Putin was really dangerous, how could that be evaluated.

“From my perspective — and I have the benefit of not being in the government — if there is evidence linking Russia to this, that should inspire the Europeans to do much more…”

Clinton added that if Russia keeps supporting the insurgents, “there’s a lot more that needs to be done,” including European leaders putting “Putin on notice that he has gone too far and we are not going to stand idly by.”

“So Europeans have to be the ones to take the lead on this,” she said. “It was a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur over European territory. There should be outrage in European capitals.” http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/hillary-clinton-europe-take-lead-plane-109069.html#ixzz37vAVX1Ac

Notice that the former USA Secretary of State is telling Europe to rise up and take the lead on this. In the past, it was the USA that would do this. And while, to a degree the USA is, it is obvious that more and more USA leaders want Europe to rise up. The Bible shows that will happen, and that there will be future conflict between Europe and a Russian led force. But those prophecies, which are not for several years after the start of the Great Tribulation do not show that Europe will win that conflict (e.g. Jeremiah 50:41-43).

Perhaps I should mention, that based upon interpretation of biblical prophecies, the Philadelphia portion of the Church of God, once led by the old WCG and now the current CCOG, have long taught that Russia would not be the power to destroy the USA.

Notice something from the late Hebert Armstrong decades ago, during the time of the old Soviet Union, titled Why Russia Will Not Attack the United States:

For decades now, the prospect of war between Russia and the United States has continually heightened and lessened.

Many who claim to be authorities on prophecy assure people a war involving Russia and the United States, Canada and England is prophesied in Ezekiel 38.

The United States, Britain and other democracies of north-western Europe, they recognize, are nations descended from the lost Ten Tribes. Therefore, they conclude, the prophecy of Ezekiel 38 foretells a military invasion of the North American continent from the Soviet Union. But this is not what prophecy says…

But this very fact – that this invasion will not come until after the Second Coming of Christ – will seem preposterous to many, at first thought.

That is because we have been accustomed merely to assume things that are not true. We have blindly assumed that when Christ comes, there will be no opposition. Every person and power on earth, we have thought, will simply submit meekly and instantly to him and his power. But that is not true!

Some gentile nations understandably shall not submit until forced to. The final restoration of the Roman Empire shall be subdued and conquered at a battle commonly called “Armageddon.” But the populous nations of Eurasia that the Almighty God up to this point has not dealt with shall still have to be brought to submission.

“Gog” Identified“Gog in the land of “Magog” is the vast regions of the U.S.S.R. in northern Eurasia extending from the Baltic to the Pacific. “Meshech” is Moscow, “Tubal” is Tobol’sk.

Notice the allies who come with them in this future battle. You will find “Gomer” “Togarmah,” “Magog,” “Meshech” “Tubal” identified in Genesis 10 as the sons of Japheth, father of the Eurasians. Ethiopia and Phut (mistranslated Libya) are descended from Ham.

Therefore, this prophecy of Ezekiel 38 shows who shall finally succeed in marshaling peoples of each major race into a gigantic invasion upon our people.

When God begins to rule the world, through Christ – with His chosen people restored to prosperity in the land of Israel, the very center of the land surface of the earth (verse 12, Moffatt translation) – this, great Eurasian union of nations shall finally be tempted to use their mighty air force. (Armstrong HW. Why Russia Will Not Attack the United States, article).

Some Bible scholars assert falsely that these prophecies of Ezekiel were fulfilled anciently. They never were. Others believe they are about to occur but some years be- fore Armageddon. Both views are erroneous. The events of Ezekiel 38 and 39 are without question still future – for the “latter days” (38: 16) and “latter years” (38:8). Moreover, Ezekiel 38:14 describes the time setting as being “in that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely.” This is certainly not the situation in the State of Israel to-day! The Israel described by Ezekiel is a nation that dwells in security, in unwalled villages, totally unprepared for war (38:8, 11, 14). Read it for yourself! (Why Russia Will Not Attack the United States. WCG booklet)

Ezekiel 38 is for the distant future–after the millennium (cf. Revelation 20:7-9). But that does not mean that there cannot be military conflict between the USA and Russia now (and there may be some).

Why mention that now?

Because it that position also suggests that the USA itself would not provide a major hot war against Russia. The situation with the Malaysian jet is further evidence that despite what Russia may or may not have done in Ukraine, Crimea, etc., the USA does not want major armed conflict with Russia. So, the fact that the USA does not want to initiate that is consistent with the view that the Russians probably would not want to initiate a major hot war against the USA.

Another reason to mention this is that there are Protestant prophecy watchers (as well as some others) who believe that Ezekiel 38 is about to be filled and that Russia will launch a major attack. Actually, one Protestant claimed that Jesus would return on July 15 as Russia was about to break some type of peace deal/understanding he felt was related to Daniel 9:27. Of course, as I posted about that (see Can the ‘Rapture’ happen tomorrow?) Jesus could not return then and the deal of Daniel 9:27 was not primarily about Russia (though it could have some input). Many misunderstand the deal of Daniel 9:27. Perhaps I should add that the same Protestant source has this posted at his website:

Many Bible scholars believe the U.S. is mentioned in the book of Ezekiel and say that this next particular passage may allude to a nuclear war between Russia and America.

Ezekiel 39
6. And I will send a fire on Magog, AND among them that dwell carelessly (Hebrew word “betach” – unawares; unsuspecting; not caring; [false sense of] security; negligent) in the isles: and they will know that I am the LORD.

The United States is the nation that dwells carelessly in the isles. (http://endtimesrevealed.site11.com/ viewed 07/19/2014)

The above is simply wrong. Ezekiel 39 does NOT allude to a war between the USA and Russia.

It should be noted that certain other Protestants erroneously claim that Russia is the King of the North of Daniel 11 and hence also the ‘prince’ of Daniel 9:26-27. That view is in error (see also Is Russia the King of the North? and/or watch the videos Is Russia the King of the North? and Can You Prove that the Beast to Come is European?).

That being said, the situation in Ukraine remains volatile and tense. Vladimir Putin has long wanted to restore his version of a new Soviet Union which he calls the Eurasian Union. Bible prophecy does show that a Russian-led Eurasian confederation will ultimately form (for details, see The Eurasian Union, the Kings of the East, and Bible Prophecy).

Also, however, a European power will form according to Bible prophecy. It is prophesied to dominate the world (Revelation 13:1-10) and world events, and the USA, keep pushing some in Europe to try to take steps to make that happen.

Some items of possibly related interest may include:

Russia and Ukraine: Origins and Prophesied Future Where do the Russians come from? What about those in the Ukraine? What is prophesied for Russia and its allies? What will they do to the Europeans that supported the Beast in the end? You can also watch the short video Ukraine in Prophecy?
Russia in the Bible and in Prophecy Is Russia mentioned in the Bible? It it is where is it? Is there any evidence of a people moving to the land that the Russians now occupy? What do Catholic and other prophecies say about Russia? What does the Bible teach? How are Protestants often in error on this? Is there more in biblical prophecy for Russia than war? Does God have a plan to save Russia and her allies? Does Russia have a history involving Sabbath keepers? Does scripture tie Russia in with Armageddon? Will Russia help defeat the end time Babylonian power? What did the Apostle John, and the prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Daniel, write about Russia? This is a sermon-length video.
Bible News Prophecy July-Sept. 2014: The Coming Eurasian Union Here is the latest magazine from the Continuing Church of God. The cover of which shows Vladimir Putin and features an article about the coming Eurasian Union.
When Will the Great Tribulation Begin? 2014, 2015, or 2016? Can the Great Tribulation begin today? What happens before the Great Tribulation in the “beginning of sorrows”? What happens in the Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord? Is this the time of the Gentiles? When is the earliest that the Great Tribulation can begin? What is the Day of the Lord? Who are the 144,000? Here is a version of the article in the Spanish language: ¿Puede comenzar la Gran Tribulación en 2013 o 2014? ¿Es el Tiempo de los Gentiles? You can also see the English language sermon video: The Great Tribulation from the Mount of Olives.
The ‘Peace Deal’ of Daniel 9:27 This prophecy could give up to 3 1/2 years advance notice of the coming Great Tribulation. Will most ignore or misunderstand its fulfillment? Here is a link to a related sermon video Daniel 9:27 and the Start of the Great Tribulation.
Wars, rumors of wars, and the Apocalypse Jesus foretold a time before the end where there would be wars and rumors of wars. The Apocalypse (the Book of Revelation) warns of the red horseman of war. Now, even secular writers, like Larry Edelson, are worried that wars and rumors of war are the most menacing problem that now haunts the earth? Are they right? What is the solution? This is a sermonette-length video.
Is Russia the King of the North? Some claim it is. But what does the Bible teach? Here is a link to a video, also titled Is Russia the King of the North?
Europa, the Beast, and Revelation Where did Europe get its name? What might Europe have to do with the Book of Revelation? What about “the Beast”? Is an emerging European power “the daughter of Babylon”? What is ahead for Europe? Here is a link to a video titled: Can You Prove that the Beast to Come is European?
The Eurasian Union, the Kings of the East, and Bible Prophecy Is there a Eurasian union that will be formed? Is one being formed right now? Are any leaders working on that in the 21st century? Does the Bible teach that there will be a Eurasian union? If some type of Eurasian union is formed, who might it benefit and who will it destroy? A related video would be Is The Eurasian Union Rising?
Who is the King of the North? Is there one? Do biblical and Roman Catholic prophecies for the Great Monarch point to the same leader? Should he be followed? Who will be the King of the North discussed in Daniel 11? Is a nuclear attack prophesied to happen to the English-speaking peoples of the United States, Great Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand? When do the 1335 days, 1290 days, and 1260 days (the time, times, and half a time) of Daniel 12 begin? When does the Bible show that economic collapse will affect the United States? In the Spanish language check out ¿Quién es el Rey del Norte? Here is a link to a video titled: The Future King of the North.
The ‘Peace Deal’ of Daniel 9:27 This prophecy could give up to 3 1/2 years advance notice of the coming Great Tribulation. Will most ignore or misunderstand its fulfillment? Here is a link to a related sermon video Daniel 9:27 and the Start of the Great Tribulation.
Hillary Clinton in Prophecy Prophecy, Hillary Clinton? Are there prophecies that Hillary Clinton may fulfill? Are there any prophecies that she has already helped fulfill? Could Hillary Clinton be apocalyptic? Could Hillary Clinton be the final Antichrist?
Prophecy Obama: Prophecies of Barack Obama? Reasons why Barack Obama is apocalyptic and reasons why Barack Obama is not the Antichrist. This article includes many biblical and non-biblical prophecies, from around the world, that seem to discuss Barack Obama. Did Nostradamus predict Barack Obama dealing with the Antichrist? Might Barack Obama set the stage for the kings of the North and South as at least one Shiite prophecy suggests? Read it and decide for yourself if President Obama seems to be fulfilling various prophecies. Watch also the YouTube Barack Obama and the State of the Apocalypse.