Banned disses UCG and lies about Bob Thiel
In a post last night, Gary Leonard, the webmaster at the Banned By HWA site (an anti-Church of God website), had the following:
Don Ward is back with one of his year-end encyclicals to his faithful followers in the United Church of God. It has been a rough year for many UCG members as they are constantly being berated for not doing enough. There is that “gospel” that UCG assumes they are getting out to the world, though you would be hard-pressed to find anyone on the street who has ever heard of them.
God has not called you to just sit on the sidelines and watch the world go by. He expects you to be in the arena fighting the good fight of faith with all your might.
I am curious to know exactly when UCG has fought the “good fight”. Its leadership has been on the dole since they apostatized from the Worldwide Church of God in a fit of rebellion as they went from one paycheck to another paycheck.
Later, in that post, Gary Leonard had the following, including the 1 Corinthians/Romans section from UCG’s Donald Ward:
UCG members should not wait for the ministry to do anything, it is up to them, particularly the ability to prophesy.
God gives talents to every person (1 Corinthians 12:4-11
). God expects us to use our gifts and talents to bear fruit: “Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness. Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another” (Romans 12:6-10
Seriously, can you imagine what would happen when some UCG members might stand up and say they had the sure word of prophecy? They would be drummed out of the church as fast as Rod Meredith kicked Bob Thiel out for making such a preposterous claim. How could some ignorant lay member have a word of prophecy when the top dogs can’t get their act together and even pretend to make prophecies?
Better yet, when has Don Ward ever had the faith to prophesy?
Now, I have had the faith to prophesy (see also How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God).
But, Gary Leonard has had massive difficulty with that. So much so, he seems fixated on spreading false information about me. This is consistent with Hitler’s “big lie” approach.
Before going further, consider the following:
A big lie (German: große Lüge) is a propaganda technique and logical trick (fallacy). The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so “colossal” that no one would believe that someone “could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously”. …
Various sources, both popular and scholarly, attribute the following passage to Goebbels. However, it is not currently known which piece of writing this is attributed to and when it was written, or if it even was Goebbels who authored it:
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
(Big Lie. Wikipedia, accessed 12/06/19)
Sadly, many have accepted lies promoted by people like Gary Leonard.
While I have not responded to most of the falsehoods and accusations Gary Leonard continues to post about me, let’s look again at one he included last night while he was dissing UCG:
UCG members should not wait for the ministry to do anything, it is up to them, particularly the ability to prophesy.
God gives talents to every person (1 Corinthians 12:4-11
Seriously, can you imagine what would happen when some UCG members might stand up and say they had the sure word of prophecy? They would be drummed out of the church as fast as Rod Meredith kicked Bob Thiel out for making such a preposterous claim.
Jesus warned of people claiming to be religious, but were liars:
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.” (John 8:42-47)
So, for any who want to know the truth, as opposed to the lie posted by Gary Leonard 12/05/19, consider that first of all, when I brought up 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 to Dr. Meredith in late 2008/early 2009, he included it as part of a letter for a church-wide fast.
Second of all, when I brought up in December 2011 how part of 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 was fulfilled (related to prophecy) in the Spring of 2009 with something I was working on, Richard Ames concurred (with Dr. Meredith listening and present).
Third of all, Rod Meredith NEVER kicked me out of the church.
I left because Dr. Meredith repeatedly failed to keep promises, including those made to me in meetings with Richard Ames and Dr. Doug Winnail in December 2011.
It was only after he refused to meet with me as promised, but instead on 12/28/12 he sent a letter (see Roderick C. Meredith’s Accusatory Letter to Bob Thiel), which he publicized in violation of Matthew 18:15-17, that he essentially said he would not keep his promises, that I felt that there was no choice but to leave LCG.
The simple reason that I left was that I was convinced that LCG could no longer have the Philadelphia mantle because it did not sufficiently value the truth (cf. Jeremiah 48:10a). Therefore, for scriptural reasons, LCG could no longer be considered the group that would lead the final phase of the work.
Furthermore, related to LCG, in March of 2013, Dr. Meredith sent me an email wanting to work with me and also took some steps, apparently in the hope that I would come back to LCG (and I told him I could not return unless he would repent and agree to keep his promises and correct errors he knew of–and he refused).
Anyway, for Gary Leonard to claim I was kicked out of LCG for bringing up 1 Corinthians 12 is a lie.
I WAS NEVER KICKED OUT OF LCG. Nor did LCG mark or disfellowship me for that matter.
Gary Leonard has a history of lying about me.
He recently posted nonsense from a deceased anti-COG writer casting aspersions on my education. For those interested in the truth, see my response: Banned, Ambassador Watch, Living University, and my Ph.D. and Th.D.
Notice another lie he posted about me in June 2017:
Thiel deliberately conned Gaylyn Bonjour into giving him a blessing.
That is in another lie.
I never “conned” Gaylyn Bonjour. Nor did I ask for anything like being anointed for a double-portion of God’s spirit.
Here is a short version for what happened: In November 2011, both LCG minister Dr. Jeff Fall and LCG minister Gary Ehman told me that I did NOT need to have hands laid upon me in order to be a true prophet of God. Yet, I told them that something like that needed to happen for me to accept it. And in November/December 2011, I prayed that if I truly had a prophetic role from God that He would have something happen during a planned mid-December 2011 trip to Charlotte, North Carolina to confirm it or deny it if that were His will. As it turned out, on 12/15/2011 hands were laid upon me in Charlotte by LCG minister Gaylyn Bonjour, who I had not even intended to see then (I had asked to see Gary Ehman, but as it turned out, he was not in the Charlotte office due to an unexpected illness). After seeing Gaylyn Bonjour mentioning some health issues and wisdom, he laid hands on me, and specifically prayed that I would be granted a “double-portion” of God’s Holy Spirit, and he anointed me with oil. Afterwards, Gaylyn told me that he had not ever requested a “double portion’ of God’s Spirit before on anyone, but he felt that it was reminiscent of the time that the prophetic and ecclesiastical leadership mantle passed from the Prophet Elijah to Elisha (2 Kings 2:9-13). Gaylyn Bonjour had been unaware that I had prayed that God would have me anointed or somehow identified for a prophetic role on that mid-December 2011 trip if that were His plan for me and I had never discussed my possible prophetic role with him prior to this anointing. On 12/18/12, I asked Gaylyn Bonjour if he knew what he may have unintentionally done and he said yes. This 12/15/11 anointing appears to be the first biblically-appropriate prophetic anointing in the Church of God in many decades, if not many, many multiple centuries. And the legitimacy of this anointing has been proven by subsequent events–though many do not seem to understand how God works at times (see also Does the CCOG have the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18?).
As it also turned out, I tried to meet with Dr. Meredith on December 19, 2011 to tell him that it seemed God was telling me that his wife was about to be struck with something serious. A few weeks later (per Dr. Meredith’s letter dated 1/12/12), Dr. Meredith reported that his wife (who was much younger than he) was stricken with stage four cancer (she later died on November 29, 2013). That prediction was not the result of analytical skills on my behalf, but I believe were insights from God’s Spirit.
In my view, the unexpected ‘double-portion anointing, Gaylyn Bonjour’s comments about the mantle passing, and my feeling led to tell of something about to hit Sheryl Meredith, were the result of God answering my prayers in November/December 2011 that the prophet matter would be confirmed or denied in Charlotte with my December 2011 trip. Essentially, this was THREE confirmations.
Let this be clear, I was absolutely anointed, had hands laid over me, and the LCG minister who did so prayed that I would receive a ‘double-portion’ of God’s Holy Spirit, and afterwards that same minister (Gaylyn Bonjour) stated that this was reminiscent of the mantle passing from Elijah to Elisha (Gaylyn Bonjour also brought up the passing of the mantle related to this when we spoke on March 23, 2012). The fact that he did not originally intend to pray that I receive a ‘double-portion’ of God’s Holy Spirit is of no consequence, as the Bible shows that although Isaac had not intended to provide certain blessings to Jacob, once Isaac laid hands upon Jacob and gave the prayer, the anointed blessing would remain according to the Bible (Genesis 27)–and unlike Jacob, I did not employ any deceit in the anointing.
Furthermore, understand that I believe that I do have the appropriate prophetic fruits that Jesus discussed (Matthew 7:15-20) and that those truly interested in the truth can see this if they truly wish to prayfully look into this. Perhaps it should be mentioned that while some question my ordination, others have also had concerns about God’s anointing and ordinations (2 Kings 9:1-11; Jeremiah 43:2; Genesis 27:26-37). God does not always do things the way humans think He does (cf. Isaiah 55:8-9).
Gary Leonard does not want to accept that I have the fruits of a prophet and meet the biblical (see How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God) and COG criteria for that (Church of God Leaders on Prophets; see also Does the CCOG have the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18?).
As far as Gaylyn Bojour goes, I spent several hours with him last week.
Gaylyn said that he tells those who ask that he says:
I have known Bob Thiel since 1986. He has always been honest, dedicated, and sincere.
And that includes what I have written about him and the prophet matter.
No, Gaylyn Bonjour does NOT believe he was conned by me. He believes that he prayed and laid hands on me, and anointed me with oil, and, as he told me last week, he believes God answered his anointing prayer for me.
Jesus wrote:
11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (Matthew 5:11-12)
People like Gary Leonard say all kinds of evil against me falsely–this is one way they persecute.
Sadly, Gary Leonard and many other opponents do not care about the truth and think that they are getting away with their lies and falsehoods.
Yet scripture says, “be sure your sin will find you out” (Numbers 32:23).
The Book of Proverbs teaches:
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest you also be like him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest he be wise in his own eyes. (Proverbs 26:4-5)
16 The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason. (Proverbs 26:16, KJV)
Because of Proverbs 26:4, I do not respond to most of the lies and false accusations at the Banned By HWA site, but because of Proverbs 26:5, I sometimes will.
Now, notice something else that Gary Leonard posted recently, in this case December 1, 2019:
I can again state for a FACT that God did NOT send dreams to Bwana Bob Thiel or anyone else associated with his personality cult. … there is absolutely NO REASON anyone ever gave them credibility.
Of course, there is no FACT or proof Gary Leonard provided for his opinionated and wrong rant.
The Book of Proverbs warns about such people:
16 The lazy man is wiser in his own eyes Than seven men who can answer sensibly. (Proverbs 26:16)
The biblical fact, the Apostle Peter was inspired to speak in Acts 2:17-18, is that dreams and prophets were prophesied in the New Testament for the last days!
As Gary Leonard should be aware, there were at least seven associated with the Continuing Church of God that have had confirmed dreams.
Which is more sensible? The truth from 7 COG members or rants attempting to deny that God would fulfill His word as given in places such as Acts 2:17-18?
The seven dreams and their fulfillments are real facts. Here is a chart related to them:
Chart of Some CCOG-Related Dreams
Date Given to
Dream(s)
Fulfillment
2003
K. Sani Mao
One dream was on the validity of the Sabbath, but the second showed a ‘C’ meaning CCOG or COGwriter to align with.
Became part of the CCOG in November 2018.
c. December 2008
Bob Thiel
The dream showed evangelist Roderick Meredith, who had long called Bob Thiel a friend and who he was on regular speaking terms with, would stop speaking with him. He would drop down as Bob Thiel rose and their lines crossed–seemingly a mantle passing.There was also another dream related to Isaiah 6:8 and apparently the passing of the mantle; the precise year unclear. Dr. Meredith stopped speaking with Bob Thiel in the Spring of 2012. CCOG formed December 28, 2012. The mantle seemingly passed sometime between 2009-2012.
The passing of the mantle potentially related to Bob Thiel was specifically brought up by Gaylyn Bonjour in 2011 and 2012.
December 8, 2012
Fesilafai Fiso Leaana
Approximately 10 people would separate from LCG, including Shirley Gestro and go to a group. A second part was related to the Ark of the Covenant.
The fulfillment related to departure from LCG and 1o people going to CCOG occurred within several weeks of the dream and included Shirley Gestro (CCOG did not form until weeks after the dream). The part related to the Ark of the Covenant was partially fulfilled during September 2013.
c. November 2013
Frederick Ochieng
God wanted Frederick’s father Evans to join with Bob Thiel to do the work that would grow. Also, this work would have involvement from New Zealand.
The number of CCOG Africans went from a dozen to the almost three hundred (that had been with Evans) in 2014, to over 4,000 by 2019. Also, Frederick said he was unaware that CCOG had any New Zealand component before having that dream and New Zealand has played important roles in supporting CCOG.
c. March 1, 2014
Senhor Pires
Bob Thiel would be speaking to a large group that would all be black, with him the only white person.
Fulfilled March 17, 2014 when Bob Thiel spoke before church leaders in Nairobi, Kenya.
c. January 2017
Nimrod Ondigo
Bob Thiel would anoint him with oil.
Fulfilled on February 9, 2017. Nimrod did not have any reason to know that he would be ordained by Bob Thiel as a deacon as Bob Thiel did not do any ordinations in his previous trips to Africa. Also Bob Thiel did not learn of his dream until about two weeks later.
January 2019
Premkumar Ninthoujam
Alexsandar Veljic would get to Manipur, despite visa and travel issues that looked to prevent him, plus Sani Mao would be anointed with oil.
Alexsandar Veljic arrived in Manipur on January 10, 2019 and ended up anointing Sani Mao as a deacon on January 12, 2019 as Bob Thiel had tentatively authorized (but had not let Sani Mao know).
(The above list has dreams that were given to different ones of different ages in Africa, Asia, Europe, North America, and the South Pacific. For more details on the dreams, confirmations, and dreamers, see the article Dreams, the Bible, the Radio Church of God, and the Continuing Church of God).
The fact is that Continuing Church of God has the most confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18 of any claimed COG. For details, check out the article: Does the CCOG have the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18?
Can you accept the truth or do you prefer the “big lie” from sites like Banned By HWA?
Gary Leonard is an accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10), and often a bearer of false witness (Exodus 20:16).
He and various others at the Banned By HWA site remain in my prayers.
Some items of perhaps related interest include:
Why Be Concerned About False and Heretical Leaders? There have been many false leaders–here is some of why you should be concerned about them. Here is a related article in the Spanish language ¿Por qué estar preocupado acerca de falsos y heréticos líderes?
Banned by HWA and Ambassador Watch There are various ones that oppose the Church of God, but they will not prevail (Matthew 16:18).
Why Be Concerned About False and Heretical Leaders? There have been many false leaders–here is some of why you should be concerned about them. Here is a related article in the Spanish language ¿Por qué estar preocupado acerca de falsos y heréticos líderes?
Does the CCOG have the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18? Does any church have the confirmed dream and prophetic signs of Acts 2:17-18? Should one? Here is a link in the Spanish language: ¿Tiene la CCOG confirmadas las señales de Hechos 2: 17-18? Here is a link in the French language: Est-ce que l’Église Continue de Dieu confirme les signes d’Actes 2:17-18?
Church of God Leaders on Prophets Have there been prophets throughout the church age? Are any supposed to be around in the last days? What have COG leaders stated or written about prophets? Here is a link to a related sermon: Church of God Leaders on Prophets.
How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God There are many false prophets. How can Christians determine who is a true prophet? There is also a sermon-length video titled How to determine if someone is a true prophet of God. Here is a related link in Spanish/español: ¿Cómo determinar si alguien es un verdadero profeta de Dios?
Dreams, the Bible, the Radio Church of God, and the Continuing Church of God How has God used dreams in the past? Does God still use dreams? Did He use any involving those in the Continuing Church of God? Here is a link in Spanish: Sueños, la Biblia, la Iglesia de Dios de la Radio, y la Continuación de la Iglesia de Dios. A related sermon is also available: Dreams, COGs, and One Man Rule.
Is the Genuine Church of God a Cult? There are misleading statements on the internet that this article tries to address.
The Ten Commandments: The Decalogue, Christianity, and the Beast This is a free pdf book explaining the what the Ten Commandments are, where they came from, how early professors of Christ viewed them, and how various ones, including the Beast of Revelation, will oppose them. A related sermon is titled: The Ten Commandments and the Beast of Revelation.
The Ten Commandments Reflect Love, Breaking them is Evil Some feel that the ten commandments are a burden. Is that what Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John taught? For a more detailed discussion of the first four commandments, please see the video The Ten Commandments: Loving God. For a more detailed discussion of the last six commandments, please see: The Ten Commandments: Loving Your Neighbor. Here is a link to a related article in Mandarin Chinese 十条诫命显示爱，违反诫命的就是邪恶的
The Philadelphia Remnant: It’s All About Love This is what CCOG teaches. It is important to remember.
LCG: What About the Living Church of God? Are there Doctrinal Differences with the Continuing Church of God? This article explains some information and doctrines of the Living Church of God, now led by Gerald Westin, and some concerns about them. (En el idioma español: ¿Qué hay acerca de la Iglesia de Dios Viviente? ¿Hay diferencias doctrinales con la Continuación de la Iglesia de Dios?) See also Why Bob Thiel Left the Living Church of God.
Why Bob Thiel Left the Living Church of God Several have speculated reasons, but here is the truth. (En el idioma español: ¿Por qué Bob Thiel dejó la Iglesia del Dios Viviente?)
COGwriter Position on Other Churches and Religions What is the fate of those who do not know Christ? What about those who profess Christ outside the Church of God?
Where is the True Christian Church Today? This free online pdf booklet answers that question and includes 18 proofs, clues, and signs to identify the true vs. false Christian church. Plus 7 proofs, clues, and signs to help identify Laodicean churches. A related sermon is also available: Where is the True Christian Church? Here is a link to the booklet in the Spanish language: ¿Dónde está la verdadera Iglesia cristiana de hoy? Here is a link in the German language: WO IST DIE WAHRE CHRISTLICHE KIRCHE HEUTE? Here is a link in the French language: Où est la vraie Église Chrétienne aujourd’hui? Here is a link to a short animation: Which Church would Jesus Choose?
Continuing History of the Church of God This pdf booklet is a historical overview of the true Church of God and some of its main opponents from Acts 2 to the 21st century. Related sermon links include Continuing History of the Church of God: c. 31 to c. 300 A.D. and Continuing History of the Church of God: 4th-16th Centuries and Continuing History of the Church of God: 17th-20th Centuries. The booklet is available in Spanish: Continuación de la Historia de la Iglesia de Dios, German: Kontinuierliche Geschichte der Kirche Gottes, French: L Histoire Continue de l Église de Dieu and Ekegusii Omogano Bw’ekanisa Ya Nyasae Egendererete.
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