James Malm is Wrong About Prophetic Understanding of Various COGs, 2012, etc.

“Orthodox” 16th Century Representation of the “Apocalypse”

James Malm, an “independent” who has a speculative blog, posted the following today:

Based on the concept that the King of the South is no longer Egypt [with only HWA’s word for this and NO Biblical evidence to support this idea]; United, LCG and others have come up with the idea that Islamic Extremism will increase and become the King of the South.

The above from him is a little misleading. LCG (Living Church of God) and UCG (United Church of God) both teach that the King of the South may be an Egyptian (though UCG, unlike LCG, also teaches that it could be Iran), and HWA (Herbert W. Armstrong) did not die believing that the King of the South could not be Egypt. Notice what LCG has taught:

Egypt probably will be the King of the South…historically they have been…The King of the South is probably Egypt or possibly Saudi Arabia (Meredith RC. Where are we now in Bible prophecy? Sermon, Charlotte, NC, April 30, 2011)

As far as the King of the South no longer being Egypt, that was not exactly HWA’s position as he had the following published that his son wrote:

The king of the South? EGYPT, of course. But not Egypt of today. Egypt of a few more years from now–Egypt as she continues to expand the U.A.R., bringing more and more of the North Africa Mohammedan nations into the same Afro-Arabian power block! (July 1963 Plain Truth article by Garner Ted Armstrong titled “And when you see the Abomination…”p. 22).

The other point I wish to make is that we in LCG, as well as HWA’s old WCG, believe that a pan-Islamic state will be led by the King of the South:

But who is the “king of the south”?…in verse 40 we skip to “the time of the end”…The verse undoubtedly found partial fulfillment in the offensive of 1896…But Mussolini did not finish the prophecy…Just as there is yet to be a final “king of the north”…there may very well emerge in the same manner a final “king of the south”–an overall leader of an Arab-Moslem confederation, possibly bearing the very title Mahdi…a prophetic psalm (Psalm 83) provides additional insight into the Mideast picture. Germany (Assyria in Bible prophecy) and perhaps the rest of Europe will be in league in the future with a union of Arab nations…But in the end, this European-Arab alliance will prove short-lived…And the king of the north shall come against him [the king of the south]…Daniel 11:40-41…The Arab-Moslem Confederation will, of course, be thrown into chaotic disarray in the fact of invasion. (Stump K. The Arab World in Prophecy. Plain Truth, December 1979, pp. 11-12).

The yearnings across much of the Middle East for a new Saladin—one who will restore Arab glory by conquering the Jews and expelling Western influence—were foreseen by Bible prophecy. In Daniel 11:40, we read of a future “King of the South” who will ultimately “push at” a coming European superpower at the time of the end. This individual, called in Bible prophecy the King of the South because his center of power is south of Jerusalem, will undoubtedly be a charismatic person who will whip up much of the Muslim Middle East into a frenzy against Israel and Europe. (Ogwyn J. Conflict Over the “City of Peace”. Tomorrow’s World magazine, March-April 2002).

But as far as teaching that the King of the South must represent Islamic Extremism that James Malm indicates is not precisely our position.

But the main reason I decided to post about James Malm was because after mentioning UCG, LCG, and PCG, he wrote:

The theory is that Babylon [the King of the North] will fight and defeat Islamic extremism and then [according to their understanding of the 70 Weeks Prophecy] make a seven year treaty with Israel; allowing for a physical sacrifice to take place. After 3 ½ years this treaty will be broken and the tribulation will begin.

This understanding of the 70 Weeks Prophecy is just as old as HWA’s Middle East in Prophecy article; therefore it cannot be correct; because these prophecies were sealed [hidden by God] until the end. This explanation is also contrary to the Scriptures which state that when peace is declared, sudden [immediate] destruction will come, 1 Thes 5:3. Please see the 70 Weeks Error which may be accessed at the Navigation Tabs on this page.

That is the position of most of the Church of God Groups; based on the opinion of Herbert Armstrong written decades ago.

Since James Malm has equated Islamic Extremism with being the King of the South, he is indicating that the King of the North defeats the King of the South prior to a seven-year treaty. I will not attempt to try to explain what UCG and/or PCG may teach on this as I am not certain. But as far as LCG, what James Malm indicated is in error.

We in LCG teach that there will first be a a seven-year covenant, which is likely to be or at least include some type of a peace deal that somewhere has a seven-year provision or that at least will be confirmed by a European “prince” for seven years (Daniel 9:26-27). We in LCG absolutely do not believe that the King of the North will first fight and defeat the Islamic King of the South before making a seven-year treaty with Israel (although we do allow that it may be that the King of the North may increase religious fervor in Europe enough that many of the Muslim faith will leave Europe prior to the time of a seven-year treaty, the seven-year treaty happens prior to Daniel 11:40).

James Malm concluded his post today with the following:

IF 2012 were to be the year then the abomination would be set up in mid Sep 2012.DO NOT BE DECEIVED: ALL THE BIBLICAL SIGNS MUST BE PRESENT BEFORE THE TRIBULATION WILL START!

And while IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE GREAT TRIBULATION WILL START IN 2012 NOR IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE ABOMINATION WILL BE SET UP IN SEPTEMBER 2012, he is correct that all the biblical signs must be present for the Great Tribulation to start–but they are not.

Also, in a 7/28/11 post titled Present Trends and Dating The Tribulation, James Malm stated:

There is a very high likelihood that the tribulation will begin late next year; with the abomination being set up on or near September 16th 2012 with the tribulation beginning on 30 Nov ~ 1 Dec time frame.

I am not setting a solid date here. I am merely pointing out that the signs of the times in the world and in the COGs ,tend to point to next year, or a subsequent year; rather than to 2011.

I do NOT know the exact year!!!

While I am glad he admits that he does not know the exact year, because he clearly does not. But let me make this as plain as I can, there is absolutely no likelihood that the Great Tribulation will begin next year nor the biblically required abomination of desolation set up that Jesus (Matthew 24:15) mentioned related to a prophecy in the Book of Daniel 11:31.

Daniel the prophet wrote this:

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate. (Daniel 9:27)

Without going into more details, the above is understood by many (including the Living Church of God and the Arroyo Grande, California book 2012 and the Rise of the Secret Sect) to mean that a seven year (one prophetic week) Middle East peace deal is confirmed and that the Great Tribulation will start about 3 1/2 years later. And that seven-year covenant has simply not yet been confirmed. And of course, the sacrifices must start before they stop, and they have not started yet (and may not start until well after the seven-year deal is in place).

I have disagreed with James Malm’s dates many times and of course, I have always been correct so far (see Ronald Weinland, Tim Carpenter, & James Malm Erroneous 2009 Predictions AND James Malm Continues to Mislead AND James Malm Wrong Again: The 1335 Days Have Not Begun AND James Malm Now Predicts October 19, 2009 AND LHC, Ronald Weinland, James Malm, and the End AND James Malm Challenges COGwriter AND At Least Two Wrongly Claim Great Tribulation Will Begin in 2008 AND Despite James Malm, No the Great Tribulation CANNOT Begin in 2012) as I believe that the prophetic understanding that I have in the Living Church of God have is more biblically accurate than his opinions. He, of course, disagrees and tends to blog about why he hopes he is right on a regular basis. It is not that he is wrong on everything, but his prophetic understandings seem to be proven to have been unreliable in the past, and I believe still often are in error. Those who follow him should consider his track record–his fruits simply are not pretty.

Although the end is coming soon, it is not now quite the time for the Great Tribulation to being. FWIW, I have traveled to Europe many times in the past few years (my last trip was less than six months ago), and can state that the Europeans are simply not unified enough to be ready to fulfill their role as the supporters of the King of the North – the Final Beast power, yet. But they are looking at proposing peace deals in the Middle East (http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-11-13-voa26.cfm) and are trying to form a powerful empire–but it is not ready yet.

Great Tribulation Cannot Begin in 2011, 2012, 2013, or 2014

Now I have been criticized in the past for pointing out that the “great tribulation” could not begin in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, etc. And several months ago, when I posted the item that the Great Tribulation Cannot Begin Before 2015, I got several emails from people insisting I was wrong.

But I was correct then, and am now.

Why?

Well in addition to the fact that there is no Middle East peace deal that fulfills Daniel 9:27, there still is not yet in place the final leader known as the King of the North. Nor is there a leader yet in place who is the final King of the South (and both of those leaders need to make their own deceitful deal per Daniel 11:27, prior to the start of the Great Tribulation). And while these leaders could be in those positions relatively soon, several of the events that Jesus also said would occur first (Matthew 24:4-14) have not yet been completely fulfilled.

One of the ways that we in the Living Church of God differ from many with current or former COG ties like James Malm is that we believe that Matthew 24:14 still needs to be fulfilled. That passage states:

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:14)

The above verse is the one just prior to the abomination being set up (Matthew 24:15), and needs to be fulfilled.

While world events leading up to the “great tribulation” are occurring (they are as I report about them frequently, notice Might Kurt Koch become or support the coming “antipope” antichrist? to cite just one example), the final 3 1/2 year countdown has not yet began, hence the great tribulation will not possibly start prior to 2015 (with 2016 probably more likely as the earliest year).

The end is coming. It is coming soon. But the end, meaning the “great tribulation” in this case, cannot possibly begin prior to the year 2015. And thus, in all due respect to James Malm, there is no way “There is a very high likelihood that the tribulation will begin late next year; with the abomination being set up on or near September 16th 2012” as he posted. Nor do we in LCG believe that the King of the North will defeat the King of the South prior to a seven-year treaty as he indicates. James Malm again is in error.

Some articles of related interest may include the following:

Should the Church Still Try to Place its Top Priority on Proclaiming the Gospel or Did Herbert W. Armstrong Change that Priority for the Work? Some say the Church should mainly feed the flock now as that is what Herbert W. Armstrong reportedly said. Is that what he said? Is that what the Bible says? What did Paul and Herbert W. Armstrong expect from evangelists?
There is a Place of Safety for the Philadelphians. Why it May Be Petra This article discusses a biblical ‘place of safety’ and includes quotes from the Bible and Herbert W. Armstrong on this subject–thus, there is a biblically supported alternative to the rapture theory.
Why Be Concerned About False and Heretical Leaders? There have been many false leaders–here is some of why you should be concerned about them.
Concerns About Ronald Weinland’s Church of God-Preparing for the Kingdom of God Ronald Weinland falsely claims to be one of the two witnesses God is raising up and that the end will come in 2008 (first April 17th, then June 2008, now December 14, 2008). Why does the Bible show that Ron Weinland is a false prophet? He also has at least one other view that suggests that he is not part of the Church of God.
Harold Camping’s Teachings About the End of the World Do Not Agree with the Bible Harold Camping taught that the world would end on October 21, 2011. What does the Bible show?
Does God Have a 6,000 Year Plan? What Year Does the 6,000 Years End? Was a 6000 year time allowed for humans to rule followed by a literal thousand year reign of Christ on Earth taught by the early Christians? What year may the six thousand years of human rule end? When will Jesus return? 2018 or 2019?
Can the Great Tribulation Begin in 2011, 2012, or 2013? Can the Great Tribulation begin today? What happens before in the “beginning of sorrows”? What happens in the Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord? When is the earliest that the Great Tribulation can begin? What is the Day of the Lord?
End of Mayan Calendar 2012–Might 2012 Mean Something? Are there Mayan calendar predictions for change in 2012? Changes were centuries ago predicted by the Hopi Native Americans. Do Mayan/Hindu/Hopi/Buddhist/New Age/Nostradamus prophecies have any value here? Why might Satan have inspired this date? Does the Dresden codex show destruction of the earth by flood? Can the great tribulation start before 2012? How might Barack Obama be involved in 2012?