Statue purported to be Peter Waldo
(photo by Alexander Hoernigk)
COGwriter
Because post-Reformation Waldensians are trinitiarian, go to church of Sunday, eat unclean meats, and do not keep the biblical Holy Days, various ones have tried to suggest that they were always that way–and thus the Church of God cannot possibly consider any of them to be part of our history.
Yet that is not true.
One “proof’ that has deceived many is what is called the Waldensian 1120 Confession of Faith. Having read it, it is most certainly not a Church of God document. That Confession of Faith is trinitarian, considers the Roman Catholic Jerome to be a saint, and says it that the Apocryphal OT books were read “for the instruction of the People.” None of that agrees with Church of God doctrine.
However, the truth is that the 1120 Confession of Faith is fraudulent–it was not written in 1120. It came about around 400 years later.
The Waldensian Confession of Faith purported to have been written in 1120 was written in the 1500’s, not the 1100’s. … Listing the book of Samuel as 1st and 2nd Samuel, instead of 1st and 2nd Kings – as the confession does in article 3 – belies the 1120 date of the document. This confession was not written in the 12th century. This confession was written no earlier that the late 15th century, almost 400 years after the date of the document. (CA. The 1120 Waldensian Confession, wasn’t… October 13, 2007. https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/the-1120-waldensian-confession-wasnt.40081/)
Therefore, the so-called Confession of Faith was not an 1120 document of beliefs–but a later compromised one.
Notice the following about the Waldensians via the late Dean Blackwell:
When you die, you are in the intermediate state between life and the next state. When you die, you just don’t exist; your very thoughts perish and you know not anything. Wind goes to wind, dust goes to dust, water goes to water, and there is nothing there of you except your character that God is controlling to put into another body. Some of the Waldenses held the doctrine of the intermediate state. They knew one word for hell {hades} was the grave, the intermediate place of the dead before their resurrection to their final fate. (Blackwell D. A HANDBOOK OF CHURCH HISTORY. A Thesis Presented to the Faculty of the Ambassador College Graduate School of Theology, April 1973, p. 112)
Numerous Church Festivals
They were compelled to refrain from all work on the numerous festivals of the church. What numerous church festivals, seeing they rejected the traditional and pagan days of the Catholic church — Palm Sunday, Easter, Christmas, Halloween? They were keeping God’s Holy Days! (Blackwell, p. 113)
The Waldenses, by Strong, in speaking of the Waldensian Valley says:
Though agriculturally of but little importance, historically it is not the least important among the valleys. To this retired region have the people often withdrawn as an asylum that could not be invaded when most sorely pressed by their foes. [Within this region was the sacred spot called the Shilo of the Valleys, where in former ages the Waldensian synod met.] They met where they called the Shilo of the Valleys. And here also was located the ‘school of the prophets.’
So they had a school for the training of teachers and ministers even there. (Blackwell, pp. 155; see p. 29 on May 1974 version)
Prophet Inspired by God
From the Catholic Encyclopedia, article Arnold of Brescia:
They looked on him as a prophet inspired by God.
Why would they do that if he were a politician, trying certainly to establish democratic government in pagan Rome? That disagrees with what else they were trying to get across. They [these people in this country who followed him] looked on him as a prophet inspired of God. …
Henry of Lausanne, a monk of Cluny … when he came into contact with Peter De Bruy, he quit using a cross. … They said he was endowed with a spirit of prophecy. …
The church of the Waldenses has inscribed the name of Arnold as in her spiritual genealogy. (Blackwell D. A HANDBOOK OF CHURCH HISTORY. A Thesis Presented to the Faculty of the Ambassador College Graduate School of Theology, April 1973, pp. 87,103)
So, the Waldenses believed in a version of ‘soul sleep’ (see also What Happens After Death?), kept the Holy Days (see also Should You Keep God’s Holy Days or Demonic Holidays?), had a school for prophets (for more on prophets, check out the article How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God), and considered some of their leaders had a prophetic role (see also Church of God Leaders on Prophets).
Notice the following:
The Waldenses recognized that they were the true successors of the apostolic church. They kept the SABBATH, also the yearly PASSOVER. And each September or October (in God’s seventh month — see Lev. 23), they held at the headquarters church a great “conference.” As many as 700 persons attended from afar. New students were chosen, ministerial assignments were made, AND CROWDS GATHERED DAILY TO LISTEN TO SERMONS. What could this gathering have been but the Feast of Tabernacles! Under the name of Passagini, we have the clearest sort of statement that these people, about 1200, observed the whole Old Testament law, including the Sabbath and FESTIVALS! People called Cathars at Cologne, Germany, kept a fall festival, called “Malilosa”, even before Waldo began to preach. Compare this unexplained name with Hebrew “melilah” (a harvested ear of grain — Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance) and the Biblical title “Feast of Ingathering” (Ex. 23:16). How much more we might have known about these Middle Ages’ Feasts of Tabernacles had not the Inquisitors so zealously burned the records! The three-part division of tithes paid the Waldensian Church is significant. Even in the 1500’s the same division continued. “The money given us by the people is carried to the aforesaid general council, and is delivered in the presence of all, and there it is received by the most ancients (the elders), and part thereof is given to those that are wayfaring men, according to their necessities, and part unto the poor” (George Morel, Waldensian elder, quoted by Lennard, “History of the Waldenses”). 1. Compare this practice with Num. 18:21 and Deut. 14:22-25, 28-29. Isn’t it exactly what the Bible commands? … Most authors have ASSUMED the “wayfaring men” were the traveling “barbel.” But THEIR expenses would have been paid from the money given the elders, at EVERY time of year, for the direct conduct of the Work — “first” tithe and offerings. Notice that in Numbers 18:21. What Morel then mentions is a “second” tithe, for those traveling to and from the festivals — wayfaring men; and following it, the “third” to the poor. See the explanation in Deut. 14. Feast goers who had more “second tithe” than they needed shared their excess with those who had need, even as they do today! (LESSON 51 (1968) AMBASSADOR COLLEGE BIBLE CORRESPONDENCE COURSE “And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place …” Rev. 12:6).
Notice that there was a three-fold division of tithes. In modern times, we tend to refer to those as first tithe, second tithe (or festival tithe), and third tithe (or tithe for the poor). (A related article of interest may be Is Third Tithe Valid Today?).
Here is an old report from old English (where the letter ‘f’ was often used instead of the letter ‘s,’ so it is changed below) from a Baptist historian in the 18th century:
Some of the inhabitants of the Pyrenees, and of the adjacent states, and not those of the vallies of Piedmont, were the true original Waldenses, for to them and to them only do the descriptions in the books of the inquisitors agree. True it is, at the reformation a people appeared in the vallies of Piedmont, who gave good proof of their antiquity, and produced some writings, which indicated their connection with the Catalonians; as will be observed in its due place: but there is one demonstrative proof mentioned by Leger, that they were not the ancient Waldenses of ecclesiastical history. The Piedmontese were trinitarians, uniform in religious: But the old Waldenses had no notion of uniformity, and many of them were Manicheans and Arians. The Piedmontese did not understand liberty: the Pyreneans did. The Piedmontese were a handful: the Pyreneans were thousands and tens of thousands. The Piedmontese were a tame dejected people: the Pyreneans high spirited and ardent for universal freedom, as their ancestors had been. Here lay the snare; the reformers, as fond of the doctrine of succession as the catholicks, laboured with all their might to find out a succession of christians of the same faith and order as themselves. Such a people they found in the vallies of Savoy, and by dextrously applying to them whatever had been said of the inhabitants of other vallies they surmounted all obstacles except one. The catholicks objected that the old Waldenses held all forts of errours, and were as different from the reformers as from the church of Rome. The resformers extricated themselves from this difficulty by replying: that inquisitors, monks and historians were flanderers; and that all the Waldenses believed as they and the Piedmontese believed. The worst of this reply is, it is not true. (Robinson R. Ecclesiastical Researches. Francis Hodson, publisher. 1792. Original from University of Chicago, Digitized Nov 19, 2015, pp. 299-300)
Some of these christians were called Sabbati, Sabbatati, and Insabbatati, and more frequently Inzabbatati. Led astray by found without attending to facts, one says, they were so named from the hebrew word sabbath, because they kept the saturday for the Lord’s day. Another says, they were so called because they rejected all the festivals, or sabbaths, in the low latin sense of the word, which the catholick church religiously observed. (Ibid, pp. 303-304)
So, there were multiple types of Waldenses, those with apostolic succession were not like the Protestants, most were not trinitarian, and many kept the seventh-day Sabbath.
What about Peter Waldo, himself, and the seventh-day Sabbath?
Some have asserted that those who have called themselves some version of the term Waldensian always kept Sunday.
Seventh-day Adventist scholar Gerard Damsteegt has stated:
Although there is no record that Waldo and his followers observed the seventh-day Sabbath, we know that several movements related to the Waldenses were reported to observe this custom. (Damsteegt PG. DECODING ANCIENT WALDENSIAN NAMES: NEW DISCOVERIES. Andrews University Seminary Studies, Vol. 54, 2016, No. 2, Autumn 2016, p. 254)
Yet, the above scholar actually provided evidence that Peter Waldo and his followers kept the Sabbath in the same article, more of which will be cited later.
First, let it be made clear that scholars who have looked into the Waldensians have concluded that at least some of them kept the seventh-day Sabbath.
Here is an old report from old English (where the letter ‘f’ was often used instead of the letter ‘s,’ so it is changed below) from a Baptist historian in the 18th century:
Some of the inhabitants of the Pyrenees, and of the adjacent states, and not those of the vallies of Piedmont, were the true original Waldenses, … Some of these christians were called Sabbati, Sabbatati, and Insabbatati, and more frequently Inzabbatati. Led astray by found without attending to facts, one says, they were so named from the hebrew word sabbath, because they kept the saturday for the Lord’s day. Another says, they were so called because they rejected all the festivals, or sabbaths, in the low latin sense of the word, which the catholick church religiously observed. (Robinson R. Ecclesiastical Researches. Francis Hodson, publisher. 1792, pp. 299-304)
So, there were multiple types of Waldensians, and many kept the seventh-day Sabbath.
Notice the following:
One of the primary sources of evidence of Waldensian Sabbathkeeping during the first half of the thirteenth century comes from a collection of five books written against the Cathars and Waldensians about 1241-1244 by Dominican inquisitor Father Moneta of Cremona in northern Italy.
Moneta passionately defended himself against criticism from Waldensians and Cathars that Catholics were transgressors of the Sabbath commandment. In the chapter De Sabbato, et De Die Dominico he discussed the significance of the seventh-day Sabbath of Exodus 20:8, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy,” and contrasted it with the value of the Lord’s day, his term for the first day of the week. …
Sabbathkeeping among Waldensians was most widespread in Bohemia and Moravia, places to which they fled during papal persecution.
A fifteenth-century manuscript, published by church historian Johann Döllinger in History of the Sects {Beiträge zur Sektengeschichte des Mittelalters (Munich: Beck, 1890), Vol. II, p. 662} reports that Waldensians in Bohemia “do not celebrate the feasts of the blessed virgin Mary and the Apostles, except the Lord’s day. Not a few celebrate the Sabbath with the Jews.” (Damsteegt PG. Were Waldensians Sabbath-keepers? Adventist World, September 6, 2017).
Here is a report from the Lutheran historian Johann Mosheim concerning a group in the 12th century and two of their tenets:
the denomination of the Pasaginians … The first was a notion, that the observance of the law of Moses, in everything except the offering of sacrifices, was obligatory upon Christians; in consequence of which they circumcised their followers, abstained from those meats, the use of which was prohibited under the Mosaic economy, and celebrated the Jewish sabbath. The second tenet that distinguished this sect was advanced in opposition to the doctrine of three persons in the divine nature. (Mosheim JL, Coote C, Gleig G. An Ecclesiastical History, Ancient and Modern: In which the Rise, Progress, and Variations of Church Power, are Considered in Their Connexion with the State of Learning and Philosophy, and the Political History of Europe During that Period, Volume 1. Translated by Archibald Maclaine. Plaskitt & Cugle, 1840. Original from Ohio State University, Digitized Aug 8, 2013, p. 333)
So, they kept the Sabbath, abstained from unclean meats, and were opposed to the trinitarian view. While not all the views that Mosheim had about the Pasaginians were Church of God views, apparently some called by that name were Church of God Christians. It should also be noted that Mosheim believed that there were two types of Waldnesians. One considered that the Church of Rome was a real Christian church, whereas the other considered the Church of Rome to be the harlot of Revelation 17 (Moshiem, p. 333). Others have written that one type of Waldensian was fairly close to the Greco-Romans, whereas the other type was much more independent of them (Froom LE. The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Volume 1. Review and Herald, 1950, p. 831).
In the seventeenth century, Peter Allix reported about beliefs of the early Waldensians from a critic and then made his own comments:
That the Law of Moses is to be kept according to the letter, and that the keeping of the Sabbath, Circumcision, and other legal observances, ought to take place. They hold also, that Christ the Son of God is not equal with the Father, and that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, these three Persons, are not one God and one substance; and, as a surplus to these their errors, -they judge and condemn all the doctors of the Church, and universally the whole Roman Church. Now, since they endeavour to defend this their error by testimonies drawn from the New Testament and Prophets, I shall, with assistance of the grace of Christ, stop their mouths, as David did Goliah’s, with their own sword. (Allix P. Some Remarks upon the Eccelisastical History of the Ancient churches of Piedmont. originally published 1690, Oxford reprint 1831, p. 169)
But here, first of all, we are to take notice, that the Waldenses and Albigenses had both of them the same belief… the difference between the Waldenses and the Church of Rome was not so small, that they could be looked upon only as schismatics, as the Bishop of Meaux has been pleased to imagine … the Waldenses, or disciples of Waldo, having been particularly famous for their refusing to swear, … Peter Waldo’s translating of the Bible, which must have been done before the year 1180, shews, that in France there was already a language different from the Latin tongue, (Ibid, pp. 173, 183, 184)
The above suggests that they held several Church of God doctrines, including binitarianism, non-swearing of oaths, and Sabbath-keeping.
The Petrobrusians (considered related to the Waldenses) kept the Sabbath and were condemned for it by the Roman Catholic saint Bernard in the 12th century (Andrews J. History of the Sabbath and First Day of the Week. Reprint by Teach Services, 1998, p. 421). Notice the following from a Sunday-keeping writer (where I have typed it as originally written–knowing that now, the “f” charcaters below would have been an “s” in modern writing):
the feventh day Sabbath … In S. Bernard’s dayes it was condemned in the Petrobufiani. (In: White F, Bifhop of Ely. A Treatise on the Sabbath Day …. Richard Badger, 1635, p. 8)
So, yes, some of the immediate predecessors of Peter Waldo and the Waldensians kept the seventh-day Sabbath and were condemned for it. Peter Waldo likely was in contact with some considered Petrobrusians.
The Patarenes (considered related to the Waldenses) kept the Sabbath and were condemned for it by Cardinal Damian around the same time (Wilkinson B. Reprint by Teach Services, 1994, pp. 234-235).
Now what about Peter Waldo himself? Here is more from SDA scholar Gerard Damsteegt:
With few exceptions, Waldensians today deny that the ancient Waldenses kept the seventh-day Sabbath. However, historical evidence indicates that many did observe Sabbath during the Middle Ages. During the early part of the seventeenth century, the Swiss histo-rian Melchior Goldastus (1576–1635) commented on Emperor Frederic II’s Constitution of 1220 against heretics. He reasoned that the label insabbatati was used to describe heretics during the thirteenth century “because they judaize on the Sabbath,” that is, they kept the Sabbath like the Jews. He mentioned that the “Valdenses” were often called “Insabbatati,”14 indicating that during that time there were Waldenses who kept the seventh-day Sabbath (Saturday) as a day of rest. …
Primary sources show that, in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, there were two groups of Waldenses–one group that observed Sunday as the Lord’s day, the other that kept the seventh-day Sabbath of the Bible. Our research reveals that the title insabbatati could apply to (1) Waldenses who rejected Catholic festivals and holy days, or sabbaths, and observed only Sunday as the Lord’s day and (2) Waldenses who, in addition, rejected Sunday as a Catholic institution and kept the seventh-day Sabbath of the Bible. The title sabbatati, as applied to heretics, was used to characterize Waldenses who stood out because of their observance of the seventh-day Sabbath. (Damsteegt PG. The ancient Waldenses: Did the Reformation predate Luther? Ministry, October 2017, pp. 23,24)
The Waldensian historian, Emilio Comba, admits that northern Italy was a stronghold of various dissident groups associated with the Waldenses, some of which kept the Sabbath and often influenced and merged with the various groups of the Poor of Lyon and Poor Lombards.Sabbath keeping among the Waldenses was most widespread in Bohemia and Moravia. An inquisitor’s manuscript from the fifteenth century reports that Waldenses in Bohemia “do not celebrate the feasts of the blessed virgin Mary and the Apostles, except the Lord’s day. Not a few celebrate the Sabbath with the Jews.” … Most historians identify Tourlupins with the Picardian branch of Waldenses. A company of them was arrested in 1420. Well-preserved manuscripts mention that they “upheld that the Saturday must be celebrated instead of Sunday.”
From the end of the twelfth century, opponents of the Waldenses called them insabbatati, insabbatatis, xabatati, xabatenses, sabbatati, sabatatos, inzabattati, insabbatatorum, and insabbatatos. These words can be traced back to the basic The first time the word insabbatati appeared in the existing Latin literature is in an edict issued in 1192 against heretics by Alfonso II, King of Aragon, (1152–1196), Count of Barcelona, and Count of Provence. This edict warned against the Valdenses (Waldenses) and identified them as Insabbatatos and Pauperes de Lugduno (Poor of Lyon). The edict, however, did not explain why Waldenses were called Insabbatatos. The next use of this term was in an 1197 edict issued by the son of Alfonso II, Peter II, King of Aragon, (1174–1213) and Count of Provence. This document called them Sabatati and Pauperes de Lugduno. …
From the various accounts of Waldenses rejecting holy days, festivals or sabbaths, it is not surprising that, as late as the time of archbishop James Usher (1581–1656), there were many who believed that insabbatati referred to those Waldenses who worshiped by judaizing on the Sabbath. Concerning the word insabbatati, Jesuit Inquisitor Pegne also admitted that “many used to think it came from Sabbath, and that they [Waldenses] observed the Sabbath according to the custom of the Jews.” …
Since the Middle Ages, historians have characterized the Waldenses by the uncomplimentary names insabbatati and sabbatati to indicate their unique attire by the type of shoes they wore, or their unique belief in rejecting Catholic holy days or festivals and practices. The research underlying this article has tried to decode the confusion surrounding these names. This has led to the following insights for historiography, previously unnoticed. From the analysis of the shoe theory, the research brought out that the wearing of perforated shoes was not introduced by or was not the custom of the Waldenses or the Poor of Lyon, but it was a custom introduced by the Poor Catholics and the Reconciled Poor. …
The term sabbatati also could have been used to describe some groups of Waldenses who followed the Jewish practice of resting on the Sabbath. This fits the meaning of both Insabbatati as depicting the rejection of Catholic holy days, Sabbaths, and teachings, and sabbatati describing the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath. Primary sources show that one inquisitor in the thirteenth century wrote a book against the Waldenses and Cathars in which he refuted their criticism that Roman Catholics observed Sunday instead of the seventh-day Sabbath. This is evidence that there were Waldenses and Cathars who kept the seventh-day Sabbath during the high Middle Ages. Additional evidence shows that several groups closely associated and considered part of the Waldensian movement did indeed keep the seventh-day Sabbath as early as the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. (Damsteegt PG. DECODING ANCIENT WALDENSIAN NAMES: NEW DISCOVERIES. Andrews University Seminary Studies, Vol. 54, 2016, No. 2, 237–258)
While there may be debate regarding the precise year of Alphonso’s decree, notice the following:
Again to the South-West, about AD. 1190, we read of a public discussion between certain Valdenses and Catholics near Narbonne: and in 1194 of a Decree of Alphonzo II of Arragon against them …
[596] “Waldenses sive Insabbatatos, qui alio nomine se vocant Pauperes de Lugduno,…ab omni regno nostro, tanquam inimicos crucis Christi,…et regni publicos hostes, exire ac fugere praecipinius.” (Elliot EB, ed. The Horae Apocalypticae. Originally finished in 1860. Cross The Border Publishing, reprint 2018, Chapter VII and reference 596)
I have translated the above as follows:
“The Waldenses, or the Insabbatatos, who call themselves the Poor of Lyons by another name, … from all our kingdom, as enemies of the cross of Christ, … and the public enemies of the kingdom, to go forth and flee from the headlands.”
The fact that the followers of Peter Waldo may not have been publicly accused of keeping the seventh-day Sabbath until the late 12th century could possibly suggest that some who were earlier categorized as Waldensians did not then do so.
Yet, since Peter Waldo lived until 1205 in the 13th century, the fact that his people were called insabbatati by the end of the 12th century looks to be evidence that Peter Waldo and his followers were keeping the seventh-day Sabbath by then.
As far as Peter Waldo goes, it is my view that he initially (c. 1160-1179) may or may not have been a Sabbath-keeper, but became one, probably no later than 1180, after exposure to some in his region who held Church of God-type doctrines.
He is also in a succession list article that I wrote and that the January-February 2022 edition of the Sabbath Sentinel put out by the Bible Sabbath Association, which is not a Church of God group (though it has members that are in the COGs, as well as members who are not), published on pages 16-19:
Sabbatarian/Waldensian Apostolic Succession List?
By Dr. Bob Thiel
Could there be a list of successive Sabbath-keepers from the time of the original apostles to present?
Yes.
After seeing several published claims in the 19th and 20th centuries of apostolic succession related to a group known as the Waldensians [1-6], I contacted historians and librarians associated with the American Waldensian Society to see if they had a list to back up such claims—I also contacted leaders in several Sabbatarian churches.
Those I was in communication with were unaware of any such list, even though several documents claimed that early Waldensians (also known as Vaudois) had true succession and/or some type of list prior to the time of the 16th century Protestant Reformation [1-7].
However, to assist, the Waldensians referred me to Moravian scholar Dr. Craig Atwood as well as the Archivo Della Tavola Valdese–the historical archives of the Waldensian Church in Italy—for more information.
Dr. Atwood provided information that the succession of Moravian prelates was accepted by the British Parliament in 1749 (Acta Fratrum Unitatis in Anglia), because they claimed succession via the Waldensians [2, 7].
The Waldensians, or at least a Moravian portion, claimed to have originally descended from ‘‘a branch of the Greek church’’ from the 9th century [3]. Moravia is a historical region in the east of the Czech Republic and one of three historical Czech lands, with Bohemia and Czech Silesia. In the 18th century, the Episcopal Church seemed to accept the Moravians as having valid Greek church succession [3].
Some indicate that the Waldensians came from a branch of the 4th century Greek church [7], which would point to Asia Minor and Antioch. Another source seems to point to the Waldensians being a branch of the 3rd or 4th century Antioch church [8]. Even Roman Catholic sources acknowledge that there were Sabbath-keeping leaders in Antioch in the 3rd or 4th centuries [9]
While there were different groups called Waldensians by the Roman Catholics, some did keep the Sabbath as well as hold to other doctrines not held by the Roman Catholics or the bulk of the Protestants [10].
Although modern Waldenesians observe Sunday, notice the following:
Sabbathkeeping among Waldensians was most widespread in Bohemia and Moravia, places to which they fled during papal persecution. A fifteenth-century manuscript, published by church historian Johann Döllinger in History of the Sects, reports that Waldensians in Bohemia “do not celebrate the feasts of the blessed virgin Mary and the Apostles, except the Lord’s day. Not a few celebrate the Sabbath with the Jews.” [11]
Here is what Johann Döllinger published in Latin in the above source, with my translation below it:
festa divae virginis Mariae et Apostolorum non celebrant, solam diem Dominicam aliqui. Nonnulli vero cum Judaeis sabbatum celebrant, [12]
the festival of the blessed virgin Mary and the Apostles not celebrated, only some the Lord’s day. Not a few of the people celebrate the Sabbath with the Jews,
There were differences among the Waldenesians. Some kept the Sabbath. The succession list in this article only includes leaders, starting with the apostles, who seemingly kept the seventh-day Sabbath.
In the 14th century, the assertion of Waldensian apostolic succession was reported by a Dominican monk:
Waldenses … push back their beginnings to the age of primitive Christianity. Thus they deny that they first appeared as a set of heretics breaking off from the historical Church, and claim to have preserved the purity of the faith through the ages, while all the rest of the Church was degenerating and accumulating the corruptions against which they protested from the first.
Claim to apostolic origin. — This claim is first met with in a Dominican monk at Passau in the year 1316, who states that the Waldenses are the most ancient of all the sects, some even saying that this sect ‘duravit a tempore patrum.’ It was but a step to add that the Waldensian church was founded by St. Paul when on his way to Spain. [4]
The Latin duravit a tempore patrum translated to English means they ‘‘lasted from the time of the fathers.’’ While there could be groups with ties to Spain, since the Waldenses elsewhere indicated that they came from part of the Greek church originally (apparently Asia Minor/Antioch) [3,8], that would seemingly rule out Spain (though there were different groups called Waldensians).
The Catholic Encyclopedia says that earlier succession claims were made by other groups, such as those known as Paulicians and Cathari [13-14]. The 12th century abbot Bernard of Clairvaux, a declared doctor of the Roman Church, called, ‘‘The Cathari, a sect of the Waldenses’’ [15].
Reportedly, Waldensians ‘‘Being scattered abroad in various countries, … they supported amongst them the true apostolic succession of ministers and bishops, after the aforesaid manner of appointment, without break, down to the year 1450, about which time the separation of the Bohemian Brethren from the then prevailing religion of Bohemia took place for sufficient causes’’ [6].
A branch of the Greek Orthodox Church essentially approved Waldensian succession in 1451 through the acceptance of the ordinations of some Waldensian presbyters who accepted their church [5].
Interestingly in the early 1700s, John Potter, Anglican Bishop of Oxford/Canterbury, said the Moravian bishops (who claimed descent from the Waldenses) had ‘‘true succession’’ and made a point that ‘‘only those ignorant of church history could cast any doubt about it’’ [2].
But in this century, no Waldensian list dating back to the apostles has been found in modern Waldensian sources.
Marco Fratini, who works at the Waldensian Library in Italy, said that the archives there did not have such a list [16]. He also stated that such a list would be difficult to compile as there are a variety of doctrinal inconsistencies related to modern Waldensians. He is correct about that, but also there is the historical problem that people of various beliefs were termed Waldensians, not because they were all part of the same group, but because they were not in communion with, or were considered to be in opposition to, the Roman Catholic Church.
Notice also the following:
Roman Church they refused to give it the name of Catholic, and showed in what it had departed from true catholicity. The Vaudois, therefore, are not schismatics, but the continued inheritors of the church founded by the apostles. This church then bore the name of Catholic, [17].
That being said, Marco Fratini of Archivo Della Tavola Valdese also emailed me on September 3, 2020 to encourage me to send him such a list if I came up with one. In June 2021, I sent him a list with through 1525 that follows:
31 – c. 64-68 Apostles Peter and Paul c. 67
c. 98 – 102 Apostle John
c. 100 – c. 157 Polycarp of Smyrna
c. 157 – c. 160 Thraseas of Smyrna
c.160 – c. 167 Sagaris of Laodicea
c. 167 – c.170 Papirius of Smyrna
c. 170 – c. 180 Melito of Sardis
c. 180 – c. 200 Polycrates of Ephesus
c. 200 – c. 220 Camerius of Smyrna
c. 220 – c.254 Nepos of Arsinoe
c. 254 – c. 275 Unnamed Antiochian(s) or possibly Dorotheus
c. 275 – 312 Lucian of Antioch
c. 313 – 380 Unnamed Antiochian(s)
c. 380 – c. 470 Unnamed Antiochians or Unnamed Nazarenes
c. 470 – c. 500 Constantine of Antioch and Aushin
c. 500 – c. 645 Unnamed ‘Paulicians’
c. 645 – c. 650 Unnamed leader with New Testament from Syria
c. 650 – c. 684 Constantine of Mananali (Silvanus)
c. 684 – c. 696 Simeon
c. 697 – c.702 Sergius
c. 702 – c. 717 Paul the Armenian
c. 717 – c. 746 Gegnesius
c. 746 – c. 782 Joseph (Epaphroditus)
c. 783 – c. 800 Unnamed Paulician(s)
c. 801 – c. 835 Sergius (Tychicus)
c.836 – c. 919 Unnamed Paulicians
c. 920 – c. 950 Basil
c. 951 – c. 980 Jeremiah
1000s Sergius (27 years)
c. 1110 – 1140 Peter DeBruy (Pierre De Bruy)
1140 – 1155 Arnold of Brescia
1156 – 1181 Nicetas
1181 – 1205 Peter Waldo
1205 – 1224 Arnold Hot
1224- 1300 Unnamed Waldensians
c. 1310 – 1322 Walter the Lollard
1322 – c. 1335 Raymond the Lollard
c. 1335 – c. 1460 Unnamed Waldensians
c. 1460 -1492 Anthony Ferrar
1492 – 1525 Stefano Carlino or Unnamed Waldenesians
He responded to that list by stating:
Dear Dr. Thiel,
thank you for the exhaustive list.
I don’t know all of them, but it’s interesting. So I’m not able to suggest modification.
Best regards
Marco Fratini [18]
However, since we know that Anabaptists in Moravia were known for keeping the seventh-day Sabbath [19], and the Moravians claimed ties through the Waldensians, the following Moravian Sabbath-keepers could be added next of the list:
1526 – 1528 Moravian Sabbatarian Anabaptist ‘traveling minister’
1529 – 1540 Andreas Fischer
So, yes, there now is a list going back to the original apostles through the Waldensians and Moravian Anabaptist Sabbath-keepers. But, it is not as complete as preferred.
There are, of course, other possible lists and I expect to make modifications for other purposes, but for now this list looks plausible–even considering that several of the leaders on it were denounced by other churches based on real and fabricated teachings [cf. 20].
I invite others who have insight and could possibly help improve the list (and fill in gaps, if possible) to contact me.
My email address is COGwriter@aol.com
Bob Thiel
References
[1] Proceedings of the New York State Historical Association:…Annual Meeting with Constitution and By-laws and List of Members, Volume 17; Volume 19. The Association, 1919, pp. 190-191
[2] Podmore C. The Moravian Church in England, 1728-1760. Clarendon Press, 1998, pp. 210-239
[3] Martin JH. Historical Sketch of Bethlehem in Pennsylvania With Some Account of the Moravian Church. Philadelphia,1873, pp. 8, 51
[4] Adeney W. Waldenses, Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics Volume 12. Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1922, p. 664; the cited earlier source for this was from ‘‘Contra Valenses, in Maxima Bibliotheca…, Lyons, 1677-1707, xxv, 262 ff’’
[5] On the Episcopacy of the Herrnhuters, Commonly Known as the Moravians. The British Magazine, volume 7. 1835, pp. 645-647
[6] Benham D. Notes on the Origin and Episcopate of the Bohemian Brethren. Dalton & Lucy, 1867, p. 104
[7] Atwood CD. Community of the Cross Moravian Piety in Colonial Bethlehem. Penn State Press, 2004, p. 23
[8] Edwardson C. FACTS of FAITH. Christian Edwardson, 1943, pp. 18, 153
[9] Cardinal Newman, John Henry. The Arians of the Fourth Century. Longmans, Green, & Co., New York, 1908, pp. 7, 9
[10] Robinson R. Ecclesiastical Researches. Francis Hodson, publisher. 1792. Original from University of Chicago, Digitized Nov 19, 2015, pp. 299-304
[11] DamsteegT GF. Were the Waldensians Sabbathkeepers? Adventist World – November 11, 2017, p. 15
[12] Döllinger J. Beiträge zur Sektengeschichte des Mittelalters (Munich: Beck, 1890), Vol. II, p. 662.
[13] Fortescue, Adrian. ‘‘Paulicians.’’ The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 11. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1911
[14] Weber, Nicholas. ‘‘Cathari.’’ The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 3. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1908
[15] Taylor A. The history of the English General Baptists of the Seventeenth Century. 1818, pp. 22, 24
[16] Re: I: Prima successione dell’elenco dei leader. Email from Marco Frateri to Dr. Thiel, September 2, 2020
[17] Muston A. THE ISRAEL OF THE ALPS. A COMPLETE HISTORY OF THE WALDENSES AND THEIR COLONIES. Translated by J.Montgomery. LONDON: BLACKIE & SON, 1875, pp. 11-13
[18] Re: Waldenian Prima successione dell’elenco dei leader. Email from Marco Frateri to Dr. Thiel, June 17, 2021
[19] Clasen CP. Anabaptist Sects in the Sixteenth Century: A Research Report. Mennonite Quarterly Review, VOl. XLVI, July 1972, pp. 256-279
[20] Hoeh, A True History of the True Church. Radio Church of God, 1959, pp. 18-19
Dr. Thiel is the overseeing pastor of the international Continuing Church of God, www.ccog.org. He also posts daily reports on Church of God and prophetic news at www.cogwriter.com
We put together a sermonette related to the above:
Jesus said that the true church would continue to the end of the age. Did any in the groups called Waldensians (or Waldenses), Vaudois, or Moravians have apostolic succession? Were there such claims over 500 years ago? Did any group claim to have an actual apostolic succession list of bishops? Was such a list at least partially accepted by the British Parliament in the 18th century or the Greek Orthodox Church in the 15th century or others centuries ago? Could the Waldenses have came from the true church in Antioch or Asia Minor in the 3rd or 4th centuries? Do modern American Waldensians claim to have such a list? What about the ones associated with that church or its Archivo Della Tavola Valdese in Italy? Did Dr. Thiel put together such a list and share it with them? Can such a list be seen today? Dr. Thiel goes over that and some of his research into this topic, while also asking for others to help fill in the gaps or assist in improving the list in this video. Dr. Thiel also discusses its symbol with a candle on a lampstand pointing to the fourth star and Jesus words in Revelation.
Here is a link to our video: Waldensian Apostolic Succession.
The true Christian Church of God, and all of its true ministers, have laying on of hands succession from the original apostles to present.
And yes, we believe all who held succession did keep the seventh-day Sabbath, including Peter Waldo.
Some items of possibly related interest may include the following:
The Thyatira Church Era was predominant circa 1050 A.D. to circa 1600 A.D. The Church during the Inquisition. It claimed succession from the apostles. Here is a link toa related sermon: Thyatira, Succession, and Jezebel.
Another Look at the Didache, Ignatius, and the Sabbath Did Ignatius write against the Sabbath and for Sunday? What about the Didache? What does the actual Greek reveal?
The Sabbath in the Early Church and Abroad Was the seventh-day (Saturday) Sabbath observed by the apostolic and post-apostolic Church? Here is a related sermon video The Christian Sabbath and How and Why to Keep It.
The Christian Sabbath. This is a series of articles from the Catholic Mirror essentially proving that the biblical Sabbath was Saturday, that the Lord’s day in Revelation 1 is not a reference to Sunday, that the Church of Rome implemented Sunday, and that nearly all Protestants followed Rome.
Early Sabbath Keeping in North America When did Europeans first keep the Sabbath in North America? Did the pilgrims who arrived on the Mayflower keep Saturday or Sunday?
How to Observe the Sabbath How should you keep the Sabbath? This is an old article by Raymond Cole, with updated information for the 21st century.
The Dramatic Story of Chinese Sabbathkeepers This reformatted Good News article from 1955 discusses Sabbath-keeping in China in the 1800s.
Is God Unreasonable? Some have suggested that if God requires Sabbath-keeping He is unreasonable. Is that true? Here is a link to a related article in Mandarin Chinese 一个不合理的神？
Should You Observe God’s Holy Days or Demonic Holidays? This is a free pdf booklet explaining what the Bible and history shows about God’s Holy Days and popular holidays. A related sermon is Which Spring Days should Christians observe?
Is Revelation 1:10 talking about Sunday or the Day of the Lord? Most Protestant scholars say Sunday is the Lord’s Day, but is that what the Bible teaches?
Sunday and Christianity Was Sunday observed by the apostolic and true post-apostolic Christians? Who clearly endorsed Sunday? What relevance is the first or the “eighth” day? A related sermon is also available: Sunday: First and Eighth Day?
Where is the True Christian Church Today? This free online pdf booklet answers that question and includes 18 proofs, clues, and signs to identify the true vs. false Christian church. Plus 7 proofs, clues, and signs to help identify Laodicean churches. A related sermon is also available: Where is the True Christian Church? Here is a link to the booklet in the Spanish language: ¿Dónde está la verdadera Iglesia cristiana de hoy? Here is a link in the German language: WO IST DIE WAHRE CHRISTLICHE KIRCHE HEUTE? Here is a link in the French language: Où est la vraie Église Chrétienne aujourd’hui?
Continuing History of the Church of God This pdf booklet is a historical overview of the true Church of God and some of its main opponents from Acts 2 to the 21st century. Related sermon links include Continuing History of the Church of God: c. 31 to c. 300 A.D. and Continuing History of the Church of God: 4th-16th Centuries. The booklet is available in Spanish: Continuación de la Historia de la Iglesia de Dios, German: Kontinuierliche Geschichte der Kirche Gottes, and Ekegusii Omogano Bw’ekanisa Ya Nyasae Egendererete.
Tradition and Scripture: From the Bible and Church Writings Are traditions on equal par with scripture? Many believe that is what Peter, John, and Paul taught. But did they?
Polycarp of Smyrna: The Heretic Fighter Polycarp was the successor of the Apostle John and a major leader in Asia Minor. Do you know much about what he taught? A YouTube video or related interesy may be: Polycarp of Smyrna: Why Christians should know more about him.
Theophilus of Antioch This is one of the second century leaders of some Christians in Antioch and is considered a Patriarch of the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch.
The Ten Commandments: The Decalogue, Christianity, and the Beast This is a free draft/unedited pdf book explaining the what the Ten Commandments are, where they came from, how early professors of Christ viewed them, and how various ones, including the Beast of Revelation, will oppose them. A related sermon is titled: The Ten Commandments and the Beast of Revelation.
